TS 16949 - What are the requirements to train internal auditors

[Enrique]

Actually Iam a Certified ISO/TS internal auditor by AIAG and also certified by PLEXUS Corp as Trainer Coach.
I have trained like ISO/TS Internal Auditor, but Iam not certified like Lead Auditor.

Is it valid that I have performed that training?

Which are the requirements to train other internal auditors like IA.

thanks...

 

[Marc]

Anyone have anything 'official' on TS internal auditor requirements?

 

[ISOPete]

It depends on your customer. Ford requires specific classes to be taken. If you do not supply the Big 3 you have it pretty easy. If you customers do not specify training needed you can dictate what that training is.
Pete

 

[Ragnar]

Anyone have anything 'official' on TS internal auditor requirements?

This is from a previous post: Hope it helps.
"Training Internal Auditors" Good Luck! and be carefull, there are some customer specific requirments that sometimes slip through if you supply at the tier 1 level for GM or Ford. Ford C/S (4.39.1) States auditors will be trained AND EVALUATED (This Means Some Type of Exam, Test or Other Evaluation) in the following: ISO/TS 16949, Related "Core Tools", Applicable Customer Specifics and the Automotive Process Approach to Auditing.
And as part of the training, participate in practice sessions equivalent to one day in: Case Study, Role-Play etc. Ford also specifies who may conduct this training. Where GM is your tier one customer they state that your internal auditor will as a minimun meet the requirements if ISO-19011. Without this training it will be hard to satisfy the auditor looking for evidence. You may be thinking "No big deal" however the process approach to auditing will face a challange with the integrity of Management Reviews where the input from internal auditing comes into question because the auditors may not have met all the customer specific requirements. If the audit is then suspect, this creates a chain reaction or domino effect because the the out-put from Management Review (Corrective & Preventive Actions) now come into question and so on and so on.
Good Luck:
Ragnar.

 

[Raffy]

Exam Without Formal Training in TS16949:2002

Hi,
basically, on what I've experienced on our company is this. I was hired by the company as Internal Auditor, I have a previous experienced in ISO9001:2000. and I was a certified Internal Auditor for ISO9001:2000 by a consulting firm that conducts the Internal /External Auditing Course and with that I was considered as Internal Auditor by my previous company.
Now with my company now, They briefly orient me the overview of TS16949:2002, the Internal Audit Guide for TS. And they said that they need to fast track my training so after two weeks they gave a set of questions/examination to the technical Standard. Then this week they gave me another set of examination for Internal Audit Guide for TS16949:2002 without even undergoing to a formal training. Last thursday, I was put to test again by being the auditee for Internal Audit and Corrective and Preventive Action Process, instead of my Manager that must be audited. Audit results, one of the findings they've got from me: CPAR not escalated.
Would those kinds of strategy the Quality System Manager would clearly help to satisfy the requirements for training the Internal Auditor for TS16949:2002. What was on my mind right now? IMHO, they are "Setting Me Up to Fail." instead of helping me out.
Sorry, I'm gettin' too emotional.
Best regards,
Raffy

 

[ksmith911]

Be on the safe side....

From my experience, it is best to do one of the following:

1.) The organization sends one individual to an IATF certified lead auditor course and have that individual train any future lead auditors. This would satisfy any customer specific requirements that I know of because the compentency of the trainer can be traced back to the IATF. This training also includes the 19011.

2.) Have a consultant that has the training mentioned above perform the training.

One of my clients recently went through the TS16949 audit and the lead auditors were trained, prior to my hiring, by another consulting firm. The trainer, although many years experienced, did not recieve an IATF approved certificate of training. The 3rd party auditors were VERY reluctant to let this go even though my client did not supply to one of the big three. The only reason we got through is because I had my credentials and told them I would be conducting the internal auditor training from that point forward.

 

[Jim Wynne]

This would satisfy any customer specific requirements that I know of because the compentency of the trainer can be traced back to the IATF.

The training of the auditor can be traced to IATF, but not the competency .

 

[ksmith911]

You are correct in respect to evaluating compentency. In other words, you can have all the training in the world and be incompetent. You can also have no training and be more competent than most! My point is that from an OEMs standpoint, competency is base upon not only the results of the audit process (audits being performed as required by the standard), but the credentials of those training the auditors.

IMO, Competency, awareness and training are interlinked. The internal auditors must be trained by a compentent trainer. Ford, for example says that a competent trainer is someone who has been trained through a course approved by IATF, AND whose auditors perform as required.

 

[ksmith911]

By the way

Bye the way...

"There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which shouldn't be done at all. "


I love the quote.

 

[SilverHawk]

Different scenario in Malaysia. There is one consulting company which has an good connection and working relationship with a CB. The consultant is not IATF nor TS competent and yet the organization gotta TS certification.

The auditors were silient about the competency of the trainers and no issue at all. The auditor and trainer are close relatives. They are in-laws.