TS16949 Implementation - Can one implement TS 16949 without being ISO 9001 first?

[dsalcido]

All,

We are in the process of implementing ISO 9001 in our second factory. Our other factory is already ISO 9001 registered. The General Manager of our company requested that we implement TS16949 instead due to potential business with "automotive" customers. We already supply components to what are considered automotive customers.

My questions are:

Can one implement TS 16949 without being ISO 9001 first? (The registrar of our first factory stated that we must first be ISO for a year before transitioning to TS16949 - I'm just repeating what we were told)

Does anyone have any good leads on TS16949 trainingc courses? (I am quite familiar with ISO 9001 but a babe in the woods on TS16949)

 

[AndyN]

Re: TS16949 Implementation

All,

We are in the process of implementing ISO 9001 in our second factory. Our other factory is already ISO 9001 registered. The General Manager of our company requested that we implement TS16949 instead due to potential business with "automotive" customers. We already supply components to what are considered automotive customers.

My questions are:

Can one implement TS 16949 without being ISO 9001 first? (The registrar of our first factory stated that we must first be ISO for a year before transitioning to TS16949 - I'm just repeating what we were told)

Does anyone have any good leads on TS16949 trainingc courses? (I am quite familiar with ISO 9001 but a babe in the woods on TS16949)

Yes, to both questions! You do have to have a (compliant) system in place to be able to show evidence of effective implementation, but not an ISO 9001 system. Not sure where they got that one from. You certainly wouldn't have to go through registration to ISO 9001 first, that's for sure.

There are many good trainers out there - and some really excellent ones. Go for those who have a demonstrated track record. Also, consider having the training done on site, you can use part of the auditor training, for a small fee for an 'extra' day, to actually do a real, live audit on your system, for example. I did that kind of thing for my clients and I know some really excellent instructors I'd be prepared to 'share' with you!

Do go for an accredited course, however, since that's most likely to avoid some raised eyebrows by the CB auditors who 'expect' the course you use to have some credentials. In addition, a good TS course will spend some time on the core tools, so the instructor has to know that stuff too, not just from the instructor guide.........

 

[qualityboi]

Re: TS16949 Implementation

I believe as part of the readiness requirements you need to have one year of ISO TS internal assessments (see Icy's TS diary)...concerning the training course, ensure that the AIAG core tools are a part of the ISOTS 16949 course as well

 

[Stijloor]

Re: TS16949 Implementation

concerning the training course, ensure that the AIAG core tools are a part of the ISOTS 16949 course as well

Great suggestion. But only necessary if this is included in the Customer Specific Audit Requirements.

Stijloor.

 

[Duke Okes]

[QUOTE: The registrar of our first factory stated that we must first be ISO for a year before transitioning to TS16949]

S/he was dreaming.

 

[harry]

All, ................Can one implement TS 16949 without being ISO 9001 first? (The registrar of our first factory stated that we must first be ISO for a year before transitioning to TS16949 - I'm just repeating what we were told)................

Did he had the word 'Ideally' in front?.

A fair number of organizations here that goes for TS certification are quite clueless about systems, controls and related QMS concepts. Ideally, such organizations should first implement (not necessarily be certified) a QMS based on ISO 9001 before transitioning to TS.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: TS16949 Implementation

I believe as part of the readiness requirements you need to have one year of ISO TS internal assessments (see Icy's TS diary)...concerning the training course, ensure that the AIAG core tools are a part of the ISOTS 16949 course as well

The readiness requirements are listed in the Stage 1 section of the TS Rules book. (If you want to get certified, you really should get a copy).

There must be a year on data performance metrics.

There must be a round of TS compliant internal audits (process approach).

There must be a management review, which includes the results of the internal audits.

No, you do not have to be ISO 9001 certified to achieve these three requirements, or the other items in the Readiness Review.

 

[Cheryl]

May I expand on the question. We currently have 2 businesses in Ontario. Corporate office and a division in another town. We are now in the process of opening an affiliate business in Tennessee and it is expected that when we open we will be doing business for Honda and GM.
While we do not have to be certified for Honda, there is a requirement under GM for us to be TS certified.
If we cannot sell to our GM customer without a TS certification and we cannot get TS unless we have 12 months of operational data what do we do?

 

[AndyN]

Often, a customer will accept a plan to be registered if you submit that. Most purchasing organizations recognize this evidence requirement before a registration can happen is a hurdle, but the almighty dollar speaks loudly and they might waive the certificate for your timeline to get registered.

Don't forget that the people who wrote TS aren't the same folks who negotiate purchasing contracts.........

 

[Helmut Jilling]

May I expand on the question. We currently have 2 businesses in Ontario. Corporate office and a division in another town. We are now in the process of opening an affiliate business in Tennessee and it is expected that when we open we will be doing business for Honda and GM.
While we do not have to be certified for Honda, there is a requirement under GM for us to be TS certified.
If we cannot sell to our GM customer without a TS certification and we cannot get TS unless we have 12 months of operational data what do we do?

It does seem like a Catch 22 sometimes, doesn't it? This time, TS has an answer. You may get a Letter of Conformance if you meet all the other requirements. Please refer to cl 2.4 in the TS Rules book, 2nd ed.

Good Luck!