TS16949 internal auditor question

[Maria-2006]

Hi!

I'd like to know the following:
- if I take the AIAG course for transitioning of QS-9000 auditors to TS16949, can I do internal audits to TS?
-can I train myself my internal auditors on TS and then meet the TS requirements of having trained internal auditors? The internal auditors are already trained in performing QS audits but they need the TS training. Would that be OK?

We are in Montreal and there are not too many TS (French speaking) companies that could do the training.

Please let me know.

Thanks, all!
Maria

 

[db]

Excellent question(s) Maria. The answer is not a difficult as it seems. For internal auditing, the standard gives us the answer in 8.2.2.5 “The organization shall have internal auditors who are qualified to audit the requirements of the Technical Specification (see 6.2.2.2)” 6.2.2.2 says: “The organization shall establish and maintain documented procedures for identifying training needs and achieving competence of all personnel performing activities affecting product quality. Personnel performing specific assigned tasks shall be qualified, as required, with particular attention to the satisfaction of customer requirements. “

What this means is that YOU need to identify the training needs and ensure your auditors are able to audit to the standard. There is no requirement for your auditors to receive “sanctioned” training! If you can train them yourself, then do so. Remember that auditing by processes will be looked at, so ensure your auditors can audit that way. You might want to make reading posts in the Cove part of their required training!

 

[Sam]

Maria, In answer to your question "Yes".

db said
"What this means is that YOU need to identify the training needs and ensure your auditors are able to audit to the standard. There is no requirement for your auditors to receive “sanctioned” training! If you can train them yourself, then do so. Remember that auditing by processes will be looked at, so ensure your auditors can audit that way. You might want to make reading posts in the Cove part of their required training!"

True, accept for Ford and GM:
Ford customer specificate requirements state that you must be trained as a ISO/TS internal auditor using a specified auditor training course or perform 5 audits in the presence of some who has taken the course.

GM requires that an auditor be qualified as recommended in ISO 10011-Part 2.

Customer specific requirtements can be downloaded from the OAOB web site.

 

[Sue]

Sam, if you are a Tier II suppier to Ford or GM would this requirement also hold true?

Sue

 

[Sam]

Sue,
Please explain how you can be a tier II supplier to Ford or GM.
Tier II normally supplys to Tier I who in turn supplys to the OEM.

 

[Sue]

Hi Sam,
Guess I wasn't very clear on that. We are Tier II and DO supply to Tier I; however if we are aware that the Tier I supplies directly to Ford/GM do the requirements for auditors affect us in the same manner.

Sue

 

[Sam]

Sue,
That would be up to your tier I customer. The organization that supplies directly to the OEM is required to perform supplier quality management system development for its suppliers. The goal is "conformity" to the TS2 and ISO9001:2000
However there is a qualifier to the ISO conformity statement; Unless otherwise specified,suppliers to the organization shall be third party registered . . . . .
In answer to your question,IMO, let your customer decide what direction you need to move in to fulfil their requirements.

 

[Maria-2006]

Sam,

I have asked my auditor and he said it is OK do do the training internally. I guess for Tier II suppliers it is OK. Besides, the interanl auditors have received already third party training for QS-9000 and ISO-9K2K. It is just a matter of upgrading to TS.

Thanks for all your inputs!
Maria