TS16949 - PPAP Material Analysis Requirement - Plastic component supplier

[bandit1972]

Hi All

As you are all aware as part of PPAP you must have material Analysis performed on a initial PPAP and then yearly for annual verification. The guide for material analysis is that it MUST be performed by eithier:

1) ISO 17025 Approved Lab
2) QS9000 / TS 16949 Approved lab

The issue I have is that with plastic component suppliers we are finding it very difficult to obtain the above approved certificates with materials supplied by our tier 2 suppliers. In most cases we have material certs given but they are only ISO 9001 regestared.

In all of our plastic components supplied they are not visable on the vehicle and are actually part of a sub assembly which is tested as assembly on a vehicle sumulator.

We have no issues with Metal products as testing is easily done but plastics is really causing us a issue.

Can anyone shead any light or if they suffer from the same issue.

cheers

Phil

England

 

[Jim Wynne]

Hi All

As you are all aware as part of PPAP you must have material Analysis performed on a initial PPAP and then yearly for annual verification. The guide for material analysis is that it MUST be performed by eithier:

1) ISO 17025 Approved Lab
2) QS9000 / TS 16949 Approved lab

Where are these requirements? What is "the guide for material analysis"? There are no default, general requirements for annual testing that I know of--are you referring to a customer-specific requirement? TS16949 doesn't directly reference PPAP.

In all of our plastic components supplied they are not visable on the vehicle and are actually part of a sub assembly which is tested as assembly on a vehicle sumulator.

The use of the product and where it's located on the vehicle have no bearing on general material test requirements.

We have no issues with Metal products as testing is easily done but plastics is really causing us a issue.

Mechanical and chemical analysis of plastics is not substantively different from the testing of metals in terms of being "easily done."

Please post back with the specific source of the requirements you're referring to. Remember that with AIAG PPAP, the supplier (you) is responsible for material testing, so if your supplier's documentation and testing doesn't meet your customers' requirements, it's your company's responsibility to either negotiate relief from the requirements or contract with an independent lab that is capable of fulfilling them. This is a part of contract review.

 

[kbg1000]

I believe the actual material supplier (of the plastic resin, say) should generally be able to provide the necessary material certifications. Ask your supplier to ask the resin supplier. Generally it will be a GE, Dow, or DuPont and they can supply the material certifications.

 

[Jim Wynne]

I believe the actual material supplier (of the plastic resin, say) should generally be able to provide the necessary material certifications. Ask your supplier to ask the resin supplier. Generally it will be a GE, Dow, or DuPont and they can supply the material certifications.

PPAP requires material test reports, not just certifications. Check page 5 of the third edition AIAG PPAP manual. You are correct about the three resin suppliers you mentioned, however; the documentation they supply is usually PPAP-compliant.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Hi All

As you are all aware as part of PPAP you must have material Analysis performed on a initial PPAP and then yearly for annual verification. The guide for material analysis is that it MUST be performed by eithier:

1) ISO 17025 Approved Lab
2) QS9000 / TS 16949 Approved lab

cheers

Phil

England

Please please post a reference to this,
I have worked with plastics for years and never heard this, supplier certificates have always been acceptable

 

[bandit1972]

The problem is that the plastic does not come from a supplier like Du point. This material is from a supplier that only has ISO 9001 and when they make there product for example Nylon 66 they give it there own brand name. They do supply a certificate with test results on to a standard they have.

I hope this makes sense!!! im not a plastics person im affraid but i do understand what the PPAP requirement is asking for but i currently I dont think i can achive it.

 

[Jim Wynne]

The problem is that the plastic does not come from a supplier like Du point. This material is from a supplier that only has ISO 9001 and when they make there product for example Nylon 66 they give it there own brand name. They do supply a certificate with test results on to a standard they have.

I hope this makes sense!!! im not a plastics person im affraid but i do understand what the PPAP requirement is asking for but i currently I dont think i can achive it.

If your company specifies nylon 6/6 on a drawing, you should also reference the standard the material is expected to meet. The material supplier is obliged to provide objective test data (not just a material "cert") which shows that the material meets the referenced standard. The requirement for PPAP is a material test report, not a material "cert." (The latter refers to a "blanket" statement that asserts that the material is what it's supposed to be.)

 

[rangotango]

PPAP for plastic material

Your supplier may ask that the testing be carried out by a certified laboratory. This would be sufficient proof that the material is indeed nylon 66

 

[Ederie - 2007]

Material Certs

For PPAP
I have always used the raw plastic material cert given to me by the supplier and never had an issue.
If you are using a wholesale house (train car) that is not capable of providing certs, I would agree that the material should be tested 1X per year.
Make sure the testing does not kill your price savings.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Please please post a reference to this,
I have worked with plastics for years and never heard this, supplier certificates have always been acceptable

Supplier certificates of analysis are acceptable as well. If the material is particularly precise, for example, a narrow spec version, it is sometimes valiadted by an outside lab.