TS16949 vs. TPS (Toyota Production System) - Explaining the differences

1

1frenchie

#1
Imagine a new factory where the sister facilities have been in operation for over 20years each and all have their ISO certification.
The new facility is to launch with TS16949 certification and with TPS.

Management having come from previous facilities is not familiar with either practice but believes that the Quality Management system versus Business System are in conflict with each other.

I have a nice hole in the wall of my office where my head has banged against it while trying to explain the different approaches, strengths, and complimentary requirements of both systems. All without success.

I am turning to this group to see if anyone has some additional ideas, ppt's, or article's that i can reference for my next round of discussions.

Thank you in advance,
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: TS16949 vs. TPS

..Management having come from previous facilities is not familiar with either practice but believes that the Quality Management system versus Business System are in conflict with each other.
Ouch, I feel your pain!

The level of quality is a direct result of the business system practices that are in place, nothing else.

If "business" is already seen to be in "conflict with quality" in your new plant, quality will be the loser for sure.

It is all over but the crying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#3
Re: TS16949 vs. TPS

Imagine a new factory where the sister facilities have been in operation for over 20years each and all have their ISO certification.
The new facility is to launch with TS16949 certification and with TPS.

Management having come from previous facilities is not familiar with either practice but believes that the Quality Management system versus Business System are in conflict with each other.

I have a nice hole in the wall of my office where my head has banged against it while trying to explain the different approaches, strengths, and complimentary requirements of both systems. All without success.

I am turning to this group to see if anyone has some additional ideas, ppt's, or article's that i can reference for my next round of discussions.

Thank you in advance,
What you need is a talented consultant who'd give up some time to come and be able to put both systems into context........just like I used to do!

Seriously, since they won't believe you, I'd suggest getting a person from outside to come and weave these two systems together in a Q & A session. Shouldn't be too difficult to find here.....they may even do it for lunch!
 
1

1frenchie

#4
Re: TS16949 vs. TPS

Funny you mention a consultant, we had one come in last week for a generic review of TS for our management team and a detailed course for the process owners.

He walked away after three days shaking his head and wishing me luck.
:nopity:
Did i mention that our plant manager was from EU so we also have the mindset and cultural issues to deal with.
 
#5
Re: TS16949 vs. TPS

Funny you mention a consultant, we had one come in last week for a generic review of TS for our management team and a detailed course for the process owners.

He walked away after three days shaking his head and wishing me luck.
:nopity:
Did i mention that our plant manager was from EU so we also have the mindset and cultural issues to deal with.
Now, I did say a 'talented' consultant..........:lol:

EU = which country? Or did you mean "Ewwww"!
 
1

1frenchie

#6
Re: TS16949 vs. TPS

Ahh you got me on the Talented part, his magic show did lack a little bit of pizzaz.:lmao:
EU = Europe (specifically Netherlands/Belgium area)
 
#7
Re: TS16949 vs. TPS

Ahh you got me on the Talented part, his magic show did lack a little bit of pizzaz.:lmao:
EU = Europe (specifically Netherlands/Belgium area)
Aha, then you need the talents of our friend Jan - Stijloor - Roovers - he speaks the language (we have a couple of others here too from those great countries) and will know how to persuade them......
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#8
Re: TS16949 vs. TPS

Aha, then you need the talents of our friend Jan - Stijloor - Roovers - he speaks the language (we have a couple of others here too from those great countries) and will know how to persuade them......
Thank you Andy!

Kees (Kales Veggie) de Wit may also be available to make the trek to the West and "convince" (in our mother tongue) this manager.....;)

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#9
Imagine a new factory where the sister facilities have been in operation for over 20years each and all have their ISO certification.
The new facility is to launch with TS16949 certification and with TPS.

Management having come from previous facilities is not familiar with either practice but believes that the Quality Management system versus Business System are in conflict with each other.

I have a nice hole in the wall of my office where my head has banged against it while trying to explain the different approaches, strengths, and complimentary requirements of both systems. All without success.

I am turning to this group to see if anyone has some additional ideas, ppt's, or article's that i can reference for my next round of discussions.

Thank you in advance,
This is the Toyota Production System, wherein the originator, Toyota, has never seen a need to associate itself with TS16949. On the other hand we have the American automotive industry which has hitched its wagon to the 16949 "star" and is now in the process of self-destruction. Oil and water, if you ask me.
 
#10
This is the Toyota Production System, wherein the originator, Toyota, has never seen a need to associate itself with TS16949. On the other hand we have the American automotive industry which has hitched its wagon to the 16949 "star" and is now in the process of self-destruction. Oil and water, if you ask me.
C'mon Jim! You know that's not true!

The Big 3 didn't hitch themselves to the TS standard, as I have posted before (did you ever think to question why your local engine plant was 'only' ISO 9002?). Indeed, they didn't even have ISO 9001 at HQ!

You can't seriously be blaming the situation they are in on a qms! Are you wearing an aluminium foil hat too?
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
T PPAP differences between TS16949 and VDA APQP and PPAP 1
G Is ISO/TS16949 Extension Available? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B ISO/TS16949 In-House Non-Product Laboratory IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B TS16949 Section 8.2.2.3 Product Audit - Requirements for various Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
M ISO/TS16949 to IATF 16949:2016 Gap Analysis Questions IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
tony wardle Lean and TS16949 - Integration Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 4
T TS16949 - What extras over the ISO 9001:2008? Gap Analysis IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
B Checklist for ISO/TS16949 for review and comment IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
T TS16949 Process Design Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
L TS16949 Work Instruction Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
D TS16949 Annex A versus Toyota MQC's IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
T TS16949 Lead Auditor Training Recommendations wanted Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 5
M Increase in Major TS16949 Audit Findings IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
D TS16949 requirements for for Directed Buy Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
G Insights into the 2016 Version of TS16949 (IATF 16949) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 74
B ISO/TS16949 8.2.3.1 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B ISO/TS16949 6.2.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
K TS16949 registration for Kitting and Line Sequencing Service company IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
V Procedure to change the Company name in existing TS16949-2009 certificate ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
C Calibration Certificate "As Found" condition - TS16949 Section 7.6.2 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 7
T Reduced Audit days when UPGRADING from AS9100 to TS16949 - Is it possible? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
T Is there a requirement in TS16949 that PO's show a revision level? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
G Service Parts Assembly Line and Scope of TS16949 Registration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
M Comparing the MMOG (v3 or v4) with ISO / TS16949 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3
B ISO/TS16949 Internal Auditing - How many auditors? Internal Auditing 4
B How to maintain documentation under ISO/TS16949 Clause 4.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
M Is a separate ISO/TS16949 certificate required for an extension site? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
L Scope of TS16949 for Aftermarket Product and a Service Fill Product IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B Meeting the requirements of ISO/TS16949 Clause 6.2.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
W Does TS16949 require MSA on all measurement systems in the Control Plan? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
M Process Records requirements for TS16949 standard IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
D Include non-automotive in TS16949 Registration Scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
R TS16949 requirements for Motorcycle OEM Parts Suppliers (Batteries) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
C TS16949: Product Audit vs. "Regular Checks" Internal Auditing 1
E Gap Analysis for VDA 6.3:2010 and ISO/TS16949:2009 VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 5
U TS16949 Internal Auditor Training - Is On-line training OK? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
D What is your understanding or interpretation of TS16949 7.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
M TS16949 Control regulation with business partner(Subcontractor) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
M TS16949 Design Exclusion when Design is done in a different Facility ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
M Help with TS16949 Awareness Training for Employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M TS16949 8.2.2.5 Internal Auditor Qualification IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
N IATF Appeals on ISO/TS16949 Rules - 4th Ed. - Removal of Site Extensions IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M TS16949 Exclusions - Design & Development is carried out by our parent company IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
D Risk Requirement for TS16949 Feasibility IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
B TS16949 - 7.3 Design and Development Exclusions for a Service Company ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
S Will ISO TS16949 be impacted by ISO 9001:2015? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
F Gap Analysis Matrix for AS9100 Rev C to TS16949:2009 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
R General ISO/TS16949:2009 Implementation Primer Needed IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
E What are Theo Points in a checklist document for a TS16949 Audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
A Is an Internal Audit Checklist required for TS16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4

Similar threads

Top Bottom