Turtle Diagram "template"

[Wearerofmanyhats]

Well @John Broomfield ,

That was my response to the Manufacturing Manager, same guy who told me he's never seen a turtle chart that had a process objective, here and he gave me a funny look and kind of stood back and said he wanted to digest that. I'm curious how he rebuddles. What I am taking from this is maybe my manager (engineering manager uninterested in the QMS) and peers (MFG manager, Controller, mfg supervisor) are not who can tell me how the business runs by piecing the system together with cocktail napkins. Rather, how the process is outlined by my top level management.

That being said, I do agree with your emphasis on agreeing on the objective or purpose of each process. This will provide clarity and focus for each process owner and ensure that everyone is aligned on the goals and outcomes of each process.

Overall, I appreciate your insights and will work to develop a quality management system that reflects our organization's values and culture while also being practical and effective.

 

[John Broomfield]

I wish you every success and for your ongoing contributions to The Cove.

 

[Peter Fraser]

Well @John Broomfield ,

That was my response to the Manufacturing Manager, same guy who told me he's never seen a turtle chart that had a process objective, here and he gave me a funny look and kind of stood back and said he wanted to digest that. I'm curious how he rebuddles. What I am taking from this is maybe my manager (engineering manager uninterested in the QMS) and peers (MFG manager, Controller, mfg supervisor) are not who can tell me how the business runs by piecing the system together with cocktail napkins. Rather, how the process is outlined by my top level management.

That being said, I do agree with your emphasis on agreeing on the objective or purpose of each process. This will provide clarity and focus for each process owner and ensure that everyone is aligned on the goals and outcomes of each process.

Overall, I appreciate your insights and will work to develop a quality management system that reflects our organization's values and culture while also being practical and effective.

Daniel
Sorry to come late to the party - I have just noticed the thread today. A few observations:
i) remember that your system is what you do - what you are talking about here is how you describe it in a way that will communicate it to those who need to understand it;
ii) don't draw graphics unless they help you to impart useful information to someone who needs to understand something (and let them be the judge of that!) I have little time for turtles and also prefer deployment flowcharts, esp when they link to supporting documents and perhaps even show risks, competencies etc for each task;
iii) you asked "do you think it'll ever be accepted widescale to drop the "Q" from QMS?" A QMS is "that part of your overall business management system that relates to quality", and that is where I would start. Define (to the extent necessary) what you do / how you do it / what you need to communicate to others (ie your "business management system"), and then focus on specific elements that matter - such as those that affect what you deliver to the customer (ie Quality);
iv) and always focus on the objective(s) of a process - once the process has been triggered, what are you trying to achieve, when do you know you have got there, what do you need to be in place, what might go wrong etc.

 

[Wearerofmanyhats]

@Peter Fraser
Thank you for your helpful response to my post on developing a quality management system for my company. I appreciate your guidance on defining our business management system and involving all stakeholders in the process.

However, I'm encountering some challenges that may make it difficult to implement these suggestions. Specifically, I feel like production is fully engaged in the process, but engineering is disconnected due to transgressions from the previous QC person against the ideology of production. There are also ongoing debates between engineering and manufacturing over the BOM structure, which is causing further issues.

Furthermore, production is unwilling to consider the business as broken down into key processes, preferring instead to see it as a flow from engineering to manufacturing. When I recommended a similar structured diagram like a flowchart, I was told that it is value stream mapping, which is not a priority for us at this stage.

Our overall goal is to comply with certifications and build units that meet standards to operate. However, we don't necessarily need to be certified; we simply need to save money and adhere to the guidelines so we can get field validation. Unfortunately, senior-level management hasn't given me any direction, and I'm hesitant to ask since I don't know what to say or ask.

Given these challenges, I'm not sure how to proceed with creating a quality manual. I don't see a clear way to describe our business when there is disagreement and confusion among different departments.

Do you have any further guidance or advice on how to navigate these challenges and develop a quality management system that works for my company? Any insights you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again for your time and expertise.

Best regards,

 

[Dazzur]

@Peter Fraser


Our overall goal is to comply with certifications and build units that meet standards to operate. However, we don't necessarily need to be certified; we simply need to save money and adhere to the guidelines so we can get field validation. Unfortunately, senior-level management hasn't given me any direction, and I'm hesitant to ask since I don't know what to say or ask.

If that's the case why bother with diagrams right now? Developing those isn't really going to help you save money, they're more of something that auditors maul over rather than anyone meaningful within the organisation.

 

[Wearerofmanyhats]

If that's the case why bother with diagrams right now? Developing those isn't really going to help you save money, they're more of something that auditors maul over rather than anyone meaningful within the organisation.

That seems to be the response I got, now I am moving onto furthering my quality manual. Document control and Non conformance are the first procedures I'll be jumping into.

 

[Peter Fraser]

That seems to be the response I got, now I am moving onto furthering my quality manual. Document control and Non conformance are the first procedures I'll be jumping into.

That makes sense, especially if when you/they "get it wrong" then the business loses money. What processes aren't clear, aren't followed consistently, lose money, cause problems?
When a new start joins, how do they know what to do/what their job is?

 

[Peter Fraser]

That makes sense, especially if when you/they "get it wrong" then the business loses money. What processes aren't clear, aren't followed consistently, lose money, cause problems?
When a new start joins, how do they know what to do/what their job is?

But you need someone senior to back you, knock heads together, give you direction, want to get things resolved (eg BOM structure). Can you highlight wasted time, if not lost money?

 

[Golfman25]

@Peter Fraser
Thank you for your helpful response to my post on developing a quality management system for my company. I appreciate your guidance on defining our business management system and involving all stakeholders in the process.

However, I'm encountering some challenges that may make it difficult to implement these suggestions. Specifically, I feel like production is fully engaged in the process, but engineering is disconnected due to transgressions from the previous QC person against the ideology of production. There are also ongoing debates between engineering and manufacturing over the BOM structure, which is causing further issues.

Furthermore, production is unwilling to consider the business as broken down into key processes, preferring instead to see it as a flow from engineering to manufacturing. When I recommended a similar structured diagram like a flowchart, I was told that it is value stream mapping, which is not a priority for us at this stage.

Our overall goal is to comply with certifications and build units that meet standards to operate. However, we don't necessarily need to be certified; we simply need to save money and adhere to the guidelines so we can get field validation. Unfortunately, senior-level management hasn't given me any direction, and I'm hesitant to ask since I don't know what to say or ask.

Given these challenges, I'm not sure how to proceed with creating a quality manual. I don't see a clear way to describe our business when there is disagreement and confusion among different departments.

Do you have any further guidance or advice on how to navigate these challenges and develop a quality management system that works for my company? Any insights you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again for your time and expertise.

Best regards,

Ok, my $.02. Forget about trying for certification. As it doesn't seem to be required, it is of little value anyway.

From the looks of it, it seems there is a communication problem. Maybe its the "quality lingo" or something. Add in a little resistance to change, and you have issues.

Your "processes" are in fact a linked set of activities which flow from engineering to production. If it's me, I start be identifying the 30,000 foot view process -- i.e.; engineering --- production, and then what comes before and after. Just make a linear chart of the big ones. Each big process will have sub processes but leave those for another day. From there you can flowchart your procedures as you work thru the process. Again start with the big ones and the ones that you seem to be having issues with. Don't worry about BOM structure -- that's too far into the weeds. Engineering and manufacturing along with leadership will need to devise a solution -- although I can't image complicating something so simple.

 

[Wearerofmanyhats]

That makes sense, especially if when you/they "get it wrong" then the business loses money. What processes aren't clear, aren't followed consistently, lose money, cause problems?
When a new start joins, how do they know what to do/what their job is?

But you need someone senior to back you, knock heads together, give you direction, want to get things resolved (eg BOM structure). Can you highlight wasted time, if not lost money?

Peter, your suggestion to highlight wasted time and lost money could be a useful approach to getting senior-level management on board with making necessary changes. I'll stow that in my quiver. I also agree with your emphasis on defining what we do and how we do it, as well as involving all stakeholders in the process.

Ok, my $.02. Forget about trying for certification. As it doesn't seem to be required, it is of little value anyway.

From the looks of it, it seems there is a communication problem. Maybe its the "quality lingo" or something. Add in a little resistance to change, and you have issues.

Your "processes" are in fact a linked set of activities which flow from engineering to production. If it's me, I start be identifying the 30,000 foot view process -- i.e.; engineering --- production, and then what comes before and after. Just make a linear chart of the big ones. Each big process will have sub processes but leave those for another day. From there you can flowchart your procedures as you work thru the process. Again start with the big ones and the ones that you seem to be having issues with. Don't worry about BOM structure -- that's too far into the weeds. Engineering and manufacturing along with leadership will need to devise a solution -- although I can't image complicating something so simple.

Bingo dude, you nailed this one pretty well.