Two AS9102 Applicability and Interpretation Questions

[QStrategy]

Issue 1: AS 9102 Applicability: Purchase Order invokes AS9102 FAI requirements when requesting delivery of a part whose design characteristics are controlled by the vendor who is also the design authority.

The parts specified in the Purchase Order are significant elements of a complex electronic system whose design characteristics are controlled by the vendor who is the manufacturer and design authority. The parts are not modified in any way to satisfy customer specified requirements. The only customer specified technical requirement is the vendor part number.

AS9102, ?Aerospace First Article Inspection Requirement? paragraph 4, ?APPLICABILITY? states; ?
This Aerospace Standard applies to assemblies sub-assemblies, and detail parts including castings and forgings. This Standard applies to organizations that are responsible for producing the design characteristics of the product. The Organization shall flow down the requirements of this Standard to Suppliers who produce Design Characteristics.

This Standard does not apply to procured Standard Catalog Hardware or Deliverable Software.

If I understand this paragraph correctly; - Organizations that are responsible for producing the design characteristics of the product are the Design Authority and are responsible for the configuration management control of the engineering drawings that specify product design characteristics. Suppliers that produce Design Characteristics are known as Manufacturers. Many vendors are both the design authority and manufacturer for their products.

I believe FAI as envisioned by AS9102 applies when the Design Authority is the buyer and a separate entity is the manufacturing vendor and when the contract between them is governed by a drawing or specification controlled by the buying Design Authority. If the buying organization is not the entity controlling the product specification FAI should not be invoked.
See related post by Jeff Frost which states in part ... " It (FAI) is based on their(Customer) , not your (Vendor), drawing requirements." ... (Was not permitted to provide link to Elsmar posting.)

Is my interpretation correct?

Issue 2: AS 9102 STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE interpretetion.

AS9102 does not apply to Standard Catalog Hardware or Deliverable Software.

AS9102 narrowly defines STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE as: A part or material that conforms to an established industry or national authority published specification, having all characteristics identified by text description, National/Military Standard Drawing, or catalog item.
9102 Rev A, ?Aerospace First Article Inspection Requirement (FAI) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)? (not permitted to post SAI FAQ link) provides a broader interpretation

C2. Question:
How is standard Catalog Hardware defined?
C2. Response:
Any item purchased from a catalog available to the public is considered Standard Catalog Hardware. 9102 defines STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE as: A part or material that conforms to an established industry or national authority published specification, having all characteristics identified by text description, National/Military Standard Drawing, or catalog item.

The part is controlled by the vendor part number and as the design authority and manufacturer considered a standard part, however the part is subject to export controls and not available to the general public.
Is the part STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE within the meaning of AS9102?

 

[Big Jim]

Issue 1: AS 9102 Applicability: Purchase Order invokes AS9102 FAI requirements when requesting delivery of a part whose design characteristics are controlled by the vendor who is also the design authority.

The parts specified in the Purchase Order are significant elements of a complex electronic system whose design characteristics are controlled by the vendor who is the manufacturer and design authority. The parts are not modified in any way to satisfy customer specified requirements. The only customer specified technical requirement is the vendor part number.

AS9102, ?Aerospace First Article Inspection Requirement? paragraph 4, ?APPLICABILITY? states; ?
This Aerospace Standard applies to assemblies sub-assemblies, and detail parts including castings and forgings. This Standard applies to organizations that are responsible for producing the design characteristics of the product. The Organization shall flow down the requirements of this Standard to Suppliers who produce Design Characteristics.

This Standard does not apply to procured Standard Catalog Hardware or Deliverable Software.

If I understand this paragraph correctly; - Organizations that are responsible for producing the design characteristics of the product are the Design Authority and are responsible for the configuration management control of the engineering drawings that specify product design characteristics. Suppliers that produce Design Characteristics are known as Manufacturers. Many vendors are both the design authority and manufacturer for their products.

I believe FAI as envisioned by AS9102 applies when the Design Authority is the buyer and a separate entity is the manufacturing vendor and when the contract between them is governed by a drawing or specification controlled by the buying Design Authority. If the buying organization is not the entity controlling the product specification FAI should not be invoked.
See related post by Jeff Frost which states in part ... " It (FAI) is based on their(Customer) , not your (Vendor), drawing requirements." ... (Was not permitted to provide link to Elsmar posting.)

Is my interpretation correct?

Issue 2: AS 9102 STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE interpretetion.

AS9102 does not apply to Standard Catalog Hardware or Deliverable Software.

AS9102 narrowly defines STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE as: A part or material that conforms to an established industry or national authority published specification, having all characteristics identified by text description, National/Military Standard Drawing, or catalog item.
9102 Rev A, ?Aerospace First Article Inspection Requirement (FAI) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)? (not permitted to post SAI FAQ link) provides a broader interpretation

C2. Question:
How is standard Catalog Hardware defined?
C2. Response:
Any item purchased from a catalog available to the public is considered Standard Catalog Hardware. 9102 defines STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE as: A part or material that conforms to an established industry or national authority published specification, having all characteristics identified by text description, National/Military Standard Drawing, or catalog item.

The part is controlled by the vendor part number and as the design authority and manufacturer considered a standard part, however the part is subject to export controls and not available to the general public.
Is the part STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE within the meaning of AS9102?

I'll comment on item 1 and leave item 2 for others.

I think you may be missing something on design authority. Suppliers are commissioned to make parts specified by customers. The design authority is usually the customer, but it can be a third party. The act of manufacturing a part by the supplier does not make the supplier a design authority. It is possible for a supplier to be a design authority if they were commissioned to design the part as well as manufacture the part. That does not seem to be nearly as common as the customer being the design authority.

 

[QStrategy]

To clarify the manufacturer is the design authority and vendor. The firm designed, qualified, manufactures and sells the system. The PO specifies only the design authoritiy's part number, no modifications. No third party is involved.

 

[andygr]

For item #1
?Issue 1: AS 9102 Applicability: Purchase Order invokes AS9102 FAI requirements when requesting delivery of a part whose design characteristics are controlled by the vendor who is also the design authority.?

Who is issuing the PO? If it is your organization then the supplier does the AS9102 FAI to the design requirements that you identify on the PO issue to them. This is the key part, what of the design are you controlling?
For example
If you just order to the suppliers PN on your PO (no revision level no restriction only their PN as shown on their catalog, web page or such) then I would say that you are not looking to control the design to any extent and the only data they would need to send to you for the FAI you would be performing is a copy of the their certificate of conformance to your PO.
Now if you are ordering their part # where you restrict changes in any way then you are defining control over the design. At the very least they would have to perform and supply a FAI to the data you received from them and are looking to control by way of flow down on the PO that you issued.

For item #2
?however the part is subject to export controls and not available to the general public?

Very interesting observation to how ITAR/EAR comes into play in the pure definition. In my opinion this was never the intent since the part ordered with the ITAR/EAR restriction could not be received let alone the design data reviewed in the situation you allude to based on the personnel restriction so it would become a mute point. The applicable part of the standard is the statement ?Any item purchased from a catalog available to the public is considered Standard Catalog Hardware?. When you legally order the part with in the restrictions of ITAR/EAR and receive it the part would be considered a catalog item that you received.

 

[JAltmann]

In regards to item #1, yes you can be design authority and the manufacturer, but being design authority does not absolve you from performing the FAIR. If simply means you control the design engineering responsibilities.

The FAIR process is to make sure the manufacturer understands the requirements and has created the parts to those requirements.

If the design or manufacturing process changes you are still required to submit a delta or possible full FAIR in reponse to those changes.

 

[dsanabria]

You are overthinking this process and it will get you in a loop that will land you at Elsmar just to see if anyone will bring you out.

CASE # 1 & 2 ... Follow the PO.


If the customer wants a FAIR base on AS9102 then give them Form 1, 2 & 3. (Period)

To your question on COTS - simple ... Place them in form 2

Let me know if you need additional info... but remeber is what the customer wants. In essence, they are looking for you to provide an item that meets the requirements of the PO and print.