Understanding PPAP Appearance Approval

whtan02

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hello everyones,

I need to understand more on PPAP Appearance Approval.

We're supplying DC-Brushed-Motor to Automotive Door Assy maker in US.

We're preparing PPAP submission.

1 item I'm confused is the requirement for appearance approval, especially with the given form which data requirred for Tristimulus data, hue, chroma (please see attachment).

Can I say all those all non-relevent item to us, as I think those should be for color sensitive product (maybe photo, or something related to coloring of thr car or parts)?

Can somebody please help. Before asking directly to customer, I thought maybe I can learn from experience of many experts here in this forum.

Thank you very much for your time & advice!
 

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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: PPAP Appearance Approval

Hello everyones,

I need to understand more on PPAP Appearance Approval.

We're supplying DC-Brushed-Motor to Automotive Door Assy maker in US.

We're preparing PPAP submission.

1 item I'm confused is the requirement for appearance approval, especially with the given form which data requirred for Tristimulus data, hue, chroma (please see attachment).

Can I say all those all non-relevent item to us, as I think those should be for color sensitive product (maybe photo, or something related to coloring of thr car or parts)?

Can somebody please help. Before asking directly to customer, I thought maybe I can learn from experience of many experts here in this forum.

Thank you very much for your time & advice!
Appearance approval is required only when there are cosmetic requirements on the drawing (design record). If there are no appearance requirements, you don't need to submit the AAR.

On the other hand, if there are appearance requirements but color isn't relevant, you don't need to supply that data. Just put "NA" in those fields.
 

whtan02

Involved In Discussions
#3
Re: PPAP Appearance Approval

Appearance approval is required only when there are cosmetic requirements on the drawing (design record). If there are no appearance requirements, you don't need to submit the AAR.

On the other hand, if there are appearance requirements but color isn't relevant, you don't need to supply that data. Just put "NA" in those fields.
Hello Jim,

Thanks for your immediate reply.

You're indeed correct that there're appearance judgement item in the drawing, but it's non-related to color.

So, following your advise, I need to only return back the almost blank form with just the comment 'N/A'.

Or should I discuss back to customer so that to omit the submission for this form?

Thanks again very much!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: PPAP Appearance Approval

Hello Jim,

Thanks for your immediate reply.

You're indeed correct that there're appearance judgement item in the drawing, but it's non-related to color.

So, following your advise, I need to only return back the almost blank form with just the comment 'N/A'.

Or should I discuss back to customer so that to omit the submission for this form?

Thanks again very much!
What's the nature of the appearance requirement? It sounds to me like the requirement might be better addressed on the dimensional report (with whatever other drawing notes there might be) but without knowing more about the requirement it's hard to say. You can never go wrong by asking the customer.
 

whtan02

Involved In Discussions
#5
Re: PPAP Appearance Approval

What's the nature of the appearance requirement? It sounds to me like the requirement might be better addressed on the dimensional report (with whatever other drawing notes there might be) but without knowing more about the requirement it's hard to say. You can never go wrong by asking the customer.
Appearance requirements such as "free from scratches, dented on the motor casing", "No crack on the Gear" etc. These are purely appearance items without specific measurement data, judgement by Go, No-Go basis, but surely it is non-relevent to colour issue here. At this moment, I'm putting all these items under dimensional check-sheet, data indicated as "Accept".
But dealing the AAR form confuses me, and after discussing with you, I've got a clearer picture. Thanks a lots for that.
Anyway, is the further advise from you?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
Re: PPAP Appearance Approval

Appearance requirements such as "free from scratches, dented on the motor casing", "No crack on the Gear" etc. These are purely appearance items without specific measurement data, judgement by Go, No-Go basis, but surely it is non-relevent to colour issue here. At this moment, I'm putting all these items under dimensional check-sheet, data indicated as "Accept".
But dealing the AAR form confuses me, and after discussing with you, I've got a clearer picture. Thanks a lots for that.
Anyway, is the further advise from you?
It sounds to me like addressing the issues on the dimensional report is the right way to go.
 
T

True Position

#7
For notes on your drawing such as 'No cracks' or 'No scratches' I have always assigned them a number on the bubbled drawing and had the 'Visual OK' note on the dimensional result sheet.

The AAR is for customer facing items: interior trim, door panels, headliners, etc.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
For notes on your drawing such as 'No cracks' or 'No scratches' I have always assigned them a number on the bubbled drawing and had the 'Visual OK' note on the dimensional result sheet.

The AAR is for customer facing items: interior trim, door panels, headliners, etc.
That last bit is correct 99% of the time, but I've seen instances where color and gloss were specified for "hidden" parts and the customer expected the AAR.
 

Englishman Abroad

Involved In Discussions
#9
Jim is correct, AAR is normally required for parts which have colour, gloss, grain, texture, or other visual requirements. (Normally Interior / Exterior trim).

The Supplier can not perform the appearance approval himself in this case, only the Customer nominated person can approve the parts.

In my experience, this is someone from the Design Office (the trendy guys in jeans who draw the car, decide on interior and exterior colours, and trim concepts), who reviews the Master sample parts and approves them.

How many parts are needed, and who exactly approves them will vary depending on your part, and Customer.

However the only thing you need to include in the PPAP is the approved (signed Appearance Approval Report).

For non appearance parts ; generic good workmanship remarks, like free from cracks, free from burrs, paint defects, etc. can be listed on the dimensional report and approved as "OK".

Bottom line; If you still do not understand your exact situation, contact your Customer quality contact to discuss exactly what they expect - in the end they will approve or not the PPAP..!
 

whtan02

Involved In Discussions
#10
For notes on your drawing such as 'No cracks' or 'No scratches' I have always assigned them a number on the bubbled drawing and had the 'Visual OK' note on the dimensional result sheet.

The AAR is for customer facing items: interior trim, door panels, headliners, etc.
Hello True Position,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm doing the same as your recommendation (indicate data as "accept" or "OK" in dimensional result sheet)

For 2nd part, what is the meaning of 'customer facing item'? = Customer observable items? that's why need to control judgment standard for appearance such as coloring?

Thank you!!
 
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