United Airlines NCR

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#1
(Lets imagine we sit in United's quality management committee. Here is the initial non-conformity report.)

Yesterday we had an unusual incident. A flight from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked. Following SOP, we offered up to $800USD reward for volunteers to deplane. There were no takers. We had to select four customers at random to ask them to deplane. Three of them complied, one refused. We called airport police, who came and forcibly removed this customer, injuring him in the process.

The removal was filmed by other customers and we are in a storm of negative publicity on traditional and social media.

What do we do to

  1. contain the damage?
  2. prevent recurrence?
  3. repair our image?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Mark Meer

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Re: United NCR

What do we do to...
  1. ...
  2. prevent recurrence?
  3. ...
What a debacle! I can tell you one thing for certain: the answer is NOT to legislate airlines' booking practices (as some outraged people seem to advocating for at this point).

The answer to this point (prevent recurrence) is simple:
1. have scalable compensation for volunteering to give your seat up. If there are no takers at the $800, up it to $900. Still no takers? What about $1000. ...eventually you'll get people to deplane voluntarily.
2. Weigh the costs/benefits of their overbooking policies (factoring in costs of deplane incentives), and tweak policies if necessary.

As for containing damage & repairing image, the marketers have a real challenge in the short term. But in the long term, given the limited competition and short media cycles, I suspect that they'll rebound, and the incident forgotten.

MM
 
Last edited:

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#4
Re: United NCR

I agree, Mark. It'd be interesting to learn what document in United's QMS would call for forcible removal of a paying customer that has complied with his/her end of their service purchase.

Some other questions that come to mind:

  1. Are the bump compensation policies the same whether a passenger is already on board or not? (likely they shouldn't be)
  2. Couldn't they have bumped somebody that hadn't yet boarded? (even if "higher fare").
  3. How did they come up with the $800 limit on the compensation offer?
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#5
Re: United NCR

...
  1. Couldn't they have bumped somebody that hadn't yet boarded? (even if "higher fare").
I read that they needed to ferry some flight crew to the destination so the plane was already boarded (assuming what I read is true).

I was disgusted with the United CEO's response, not to mention the Louisville Courier-Journal's article.

It is so sad that so many problems these days seem (to me) to require physical violence.

I readily admit, were it me, I would have calmly exited the airplane. You really don't have much choice if you want to avoid violence in today's world.
 

Mark Meer

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: United NCR

It'd be interesting to learn what document in United's QMS would call for forcible removal of a paying customer that has complied with his/her end of their service purchase.
We can only speculate, but I suspect there's something general in the terms of purchase that passengers agree to cede authority to crew. If they tell you to do something, you do it. You could argue this would be a completely justifiable term-of-agreement for safety reasons.

If this is the case, then it's really a simple matter that the customer was not complying with a request of the crew, and hence security gets involved, regardless of the circumstances of customer non-compliance.

I'm not agreeing with the way it was handled... but if you consider the sequence of events from (Terms-of-Service) -> (Overbook Decision) -> (Crew Request to Disembark) -> (Security Tasked with Dealing with Non-Compliant Passenger), and consider the lack of communication between the respective authorities for each, I can totally see how this could have occurred without jumping to a conclusion that United is simply terrible.

(I'm pretty bad at scrutinizing terms-of-service agreements, but I'll have to check next time I fly...)
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#7
Re: United NCR

I agree, Mark. It'd be interesting to learn what document in United's QMS would call for forcible removal of a paying customer that has complied with his/her end of their service purchase.

Some other questions that come to mind:

  1. Are the bump compensation policies the same whether a passenger is already on board or not? (likely they shouldn't be)
  2. Couldn't they have bumped somebody that hadn't yet boarded? (even if "higher fare").
  3. How did they come up with the $800 limit on the compensation offer?
It's a matter of contract law. All airlines have a well-established Contract of Carriage that each passenger knowingly (or usually unknowingly) agrees to when they book flights. Here's a link to United's Contract of Carriage. In Rule 25 under Denied Boarding Compensation is text that says passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily. Legally United was within their rights to deny the man boarding. Obviously it was handled poorly in this case. I personally haven't watched the videos yet, but my understanding is that Law Enforcement Officers were the ones who dragged the man off the plane. Still, UA ended up with a black eye.

I don't know if $800 is United's limit, but I've seen Delta go as high as $1300 to convince people to take a later flight. I have taken Voluntary Denied Boarding offers multiple times on both DL and UA when my schedule permitted.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Stijloor United and Continental airlines merge!! World News 6
M Informational EU – Medicinal products and medical devices: Coordinated approach in case of a withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Union without a deal Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational EU – Questions And Answers Related To The United Kingdom’s Withdrawal From The European Union With Regard To Industrial Products Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
H Local Representative / Distributors - United Arab Emirates Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 2
J United Arab Emirates and US Army Contracts Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 4
H How to Import Medical Devices into the United States 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
Q VDA 6.3 Certified Auditor Training in the United States VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 1
C Exporting Adult Products from Europe to the United States 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
Marc Boeing Jumbo-Jet Era Ending in US as United Retires 747 Fleet World News 3
M Filing MDRs (Medical Device Report) for OUS (Outside United States) events Other US Medical Device Regulations 1
F Does United Kingdom (UK) follow ISO 17025 and ISO 17020? ISO 17025 related Discussions 14
Marc Atlas of the Historical Geography of the United States Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 2
Marc 100 Years of Change in the United States - 1913 - 2013 Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 5
Marc Thomas Jefferson, co-author of the United States Declaration of Independence Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 1
B Airbus to establish assembly line in United States AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 0
M United Arab Emirates Classification Rules for Medical Devices Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 2
AnaMariaVR2 Regulation of Medical Devices in the United States and European Union 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 5
S Samples to be tested for Salmonella in United Kingdom Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 3
Stijloor United Nations Human Development Report 2011 World News 0
A Export - We would like to sell our products to various United States installations US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 5
A Toyota will recall 3.8 million vehicles in the United States World News 0
P United Break Guitars - Customer (Lack of) Care Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 2
I Manchester United Beaten by FC Barcelona Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 7
Stijloor Drunk United pilot arrested at Heathrow Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 0
W United States Redneck Special Forces (USRSF) Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 19
B USP (United States Pharmacopeia?s) Compliant Packaging Regulations & Process Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 8
M The United Nations Global Compact registration Registrars and Notified Bodies 1
W United Arab Emirates (UAE) Medical Device Requirements? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
D Daylight Savings Time Reminder for 11 March 2007 (United States) Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 4
Randy New Presidential Executive Order for United States Federal Agencies Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 16
Douglas E. Purdy United Registrar of Systems Ltd - What experience you have had with this registrar? Registrars and Notified Bodies 5
D NUMMI (New United Motor Manufacturing Inc.) Audits Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3
Sidney Vianna United Technologies Aerospace OEM Mandating AS9100 Certification by June 30, 2004 AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 12
Raffy What does UKAS mean? United Kingdom Accreditation Service Registrars and Notified Bodies 1
Marc What Airlines Really Charge (In 1 Simple Table) Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 6
Mikishots Malaysian Airlines Flight Search is Over? Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 25
Ajit Basrur Malaysia Airlines Plane May Have Crashed - March 2014 Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 47
Stijloor Delta Airlines declared the worst! Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 43
Stijloor Airlines add fees on top of fees!!! Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 0
R They do things a little different on Southwest Airlines! Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 1
Marc What is Frontier Airlines like? Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 14
Marc US Airlines raise base fares - April 2006 Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 1
F "Quality is Safety" In the airlines. Please Help! Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 6
C NCR (Nonconformance System) Software Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7
L How to write a proper defect description in a NCR Nonconformance and Corrective Action 4
Q When to write up a nonconformance and require a NCR - We produce labels ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
B How to reply NCR on ineffectiveness of corrective action during IATF external audit? This is repeated issue whereby some mistake was done. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M Issuing NCR for improper method statement submissions Internal Auditing 10
A Scrap is NCR or not - What regulation ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 33
Q Interaction of Processes IOP NCR Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 7
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom