Unregistered Bulk Scrap Metal Suppliers - Do they need to be ISO 9001 certified?

B

brianb4

#1
Can anyone help? We buy scrap - melt it - test it - approve it - use it. TS 16949 states: Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party registered to ISO 9001:2000 by an accredited third-party certification body.

Is this rearly required for a bulk metal supplier?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
T

triad

#2
Re: Unregistered suppliers

is it your organization's requirement? by the way, the new version is ISO 9001:2008
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#3
Re: Unregistered suppliers

Can anyone help? We buy scrap - melt it - test it - approve it - use it. TS 16949 states: Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party registered to ISO 9001:2000 by an accredited third-party certification body.

Is this rearly required for a bulk metal supplier?
It is a requirement unless your customer specifies otherwise.

Where do you buy your scrap?
How do you manage your "scrap" supplier?

I understand it could be difficult and we have to be realistic. So, you have to put some effort in to show an auditor that you have tried to acquire this information about your suppliers.
 
A

Alexisss

#4
Re: Unregistered suppliers

First, let me greet everyone here, as it is the first time I am writing.

1) Suppose your company is purchasing oranges to make orange juice (industrial scale). Are the orange growers certified? No... otherwise the Common Agricultural Policy of the European Union would have exploded due to certification costs.

2) Does anyone guarantee the quality of the water that comes in a pharmaceutical plant from the public network? Suppose the water company is ISO certified. Does it mean that the water that actually passes the plant's main valve is of XXX characteristics for sure? No, it may have been affected from the public piping network or due to other causes, that's why there is a whole WFI (water for injection) preparation system within the company.

3) Now, in my opinion you may purchase from non-certified suppliers, as long as you have a clear procedure for assessing them (so that your auditor feels better, and you can have data to work on in case something goes wrong, for example if he is not checking any of the scrap metals for radioactivity you know where to look for in case you got something no good - investigate where is he collecting scrap from).

More important, you must perform analysis at every batch manufactured in your plant (melt etc). Therefore, you are providing evidence that the actual product (raw material for your next operation) is of certain characteristics, either minimum requirements, or ranges accepted for your next steps either as pass/fail or use the analysis' results as input parameters for your next steps.

Therefore you are replying to the auditor's question "how do you know that the raw material you use is suitable for your process" --> "I am testing everything".

4) Bottom line is to achieve the end result and prove that you can operate under certain procedures that will maintain a certain quality level.
 
B

brianb4

#5
Alexisss,
I agree 100% with what you say, but would the auditors out there agree that it's OK for the supplier not to be registered despite the TS16949 standards quote;

'shall be third party registered to ISO 9001:2008 by an accredited third-party certification body.'

The problem isn't that we can not prove the metal is OK, it's simply do we meet the TS rules?
 
A

Alexisss

#6
Alexisss,
I agree 100% with what you say, but would the auditors out there agree that it's OK for the supplier not to be registered despite the TS16949 standards quote;

'shall be third party registered to ISO 9001:2008 by an accredited third-party certification body.'

The problem isn't that we can not prove the metal is OK, it's simply do we meet the TS rules?
Apart from the product quality issue (which you resolve by melting everything and controlling the material yourself), you've got the part of quality of his own services. For example, is there a procedure to inform you in case there has been something wrong with the products he shipped to you? Imagine a situation where he is informed that there is a very toxic substance (eg paint) left-over a scrap metal sheet. Currently the procedure is "I'll give you a ring" (well... almost).

The way to solve it is have a Quality agreement with him, stating the rules and procedures of your cooperation. For example "the supplier is obliged to inform the client about any XXXXXXX promptly by telephone and send a written report (?) by fax or email to the client within 24 hours... the client will send a confirmation... etc etc etc".

May be you can do a risk assessment of what can go wrong with the supplier, (eg "toxic paints", "shipment delays" etc) that will affect your end product, and base your quality agreement on data derived from this assessment. You document everything and have them available to the auditor.

Regarding the "obligation", you may check part SI 5 06 (last page) of www.iatfglobaloversight.org/docs/English NEW IATF TS SIs Non Table Version.pdf . NQA is giving further explanations on the IATF document, at: www.nqa-usa.com/pdf/New IATF Interpretation for Supplier Development.pdf .

In the last one, it mentions:
"1. The vendor must have a valid accredited ISO 9001:2000 certificate or
2. The organization must have conducted a second party audit of the
vendor against the requirements of ISO 9001:2000, (some clauses may
not be applicable for designated small suppliers) or
3. The organization must obtain a waiver from every customer authorizing
them to purchase products or services from a vendor who does not
satisfy either condition outlined above"

Therefore, depending on how critical the scrap metals are to your operation, you follow the appropriate step... either have a 2nd party audit, or have your customer agree on this...

Hope all these help. Please note I am dealing with medical devices mainly, so I do not have experience on the automotive industry. I just combined google with common sense :rolleyes:

A
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ettore

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
I don't believe that a quality system of steel plants could have today, in a list of critical vendors, only scrap metal suppliers certified ISO 9001. So that I think that steel plant ISO TS 16949 certified usually, didn't insert, in a vendor list, scrap metal suppliers. Doesn't it true?
By the way, have someone seen some stell plants ISO TS Certified?
 
Last edited:

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#8
Yes, some steel plants have TS certification, especially those providing sheet metal.

as to whether scrap metal suppliers need ISO certification, no, unless your customers require it. I am not sure that I've ever seen a scrap supplier with ISO 9001 certification.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
U Run & rate for bulk materials IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
S The perils of Bulk Packaging Customer Complaints 5
S Is FDA Establishment Registration for Bulk packaging Contract Manufacturers ? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
B Environmental Monitoring for Biopharmaceutical Manufacturing of Bulk Drug Substances Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 1
Sean Kelley Electronic (.xls or other) Bulk Material Checklist wanted APQP and PPAP 1
C PPAP Submissions for Thermoplastic Resins (Bulk Material) APQP and PPAP 3
G TS 16949 applicability for Bulk Material Product IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 25
J Canada Bulk Packaging and IFU requirements for Class IIa and IIb Medical Devices Canada Medical Device Regulations 2
P Bulk Material Requirements Checklist to send along with my PPAP APQP and PPAP 2
B Bulk Materials (Lead {Pb} Alloys) PPAP Requirements APQP and PPAP 5
D How is transport of Dangerous Goods (limited quantity) regulated for Bulk Transport? RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 9
D Sample Sizes for 'Bulk' Fluids/ Materials (Polymer Synthesis Process) Design and Development of Products and Processes 1
D Bulk Material Supplier Control Plans APQP and PPAP 2
0 Sample divider for PET flake bulk samples Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
R Is AQL sampling plans applicable for Bulk Pharmaceutical Manufacturing (API)? Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 1
M For Bulk Material (eg. paint), are there any guidelines for Ford PPAP Requirements? APQP and PPAP 1
N Can I get a PPAP sample of Bulk Material (Plastic Resin)? APQP and PPAP 2
S Batch Traceability for Bulk Materials which are mixed in the Storage Tank IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
J We anneal aluminum tube (tier 2, bulk material) - Does CQI-9 apply to us? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
Q Level of PPAP - Bulk Chemicals Supplier Requirements APQP and PPAP 2
C ISO 27001 and Bulk Email Policy - Your Thoughts, Please IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 3
A Are Steel & Resin Suppliers Bulk Material Suppliers - TS 16949 PPAP APQP and PPAP 6
N Re-Packaging and Re-Labeling Bulk Lots of Class II Medical Devices 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
J Incoming Inspection AQL Sampling of Bulk Textiles AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 3
S Gamma Sterilization: Change in Bulk Density vs. Revalidation 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
T Gage R&R procedure for Bulk Chemicals Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
O Bulk Material PPAP - Design Matrix instead of a normal Design, Production FMEA APQP and PPAP 3
J Acceptance Sampling for Bulk Materials - Anyone knowledgeable about ISO 10725? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
G Setting up realistic Quality Objectives - Bulk Material Handling Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 4
A Calculating PPM for bulk-type product Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 1
C Bulk Materials PPAP - Is resubmission needed at line change APQP and PPAP 10
Casana Detection level in PFMEA (Process FMEA) - Bulk Fluids FMEA and Control Plans 10
P Raw materials as bulk materials (polymer, adhesive, etc) for PPAP IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
P Small parts trouble Kanban - Problems with the common small/bulk parts Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 8
M Bulk Class II product sale to kit packers 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 11
P Bulk Material PPAP (Resin Suppliers) APQP and PPAP 3
G Bulk Material Sample Standard Retention APQP and PPAP 2
D Bulk Suppliers - Design FMEA Required? Aluminium ingots FMEA and Control Plans 10
K PPAP Requirements for Raw / Bulk Materials? APQP and PPAP 6
N "Bulk Materials Requirements Checklist" example request APQP and PPAP 1
R Bulk Material PPAP for PCB shop? What would be considered as bulk material? APQP and PPAP 5
P Bulk Materials PPAP / FMEA - Appendix F of the PPAP manual APQP and PPAP 1
M Calibration of Bulk Tank with Scale - Operating capacity is 3400lbs General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 20
Jim Wynne 4th Edition PPAP manual - Bulk Materials - Can you guess what this means? APQP and PPAP 12
D cGMP and Batch Integrity of Bulk Storage Tanks US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 8
M Bulk material vendor (supplier) change - PPAP resubmission? SAE J403 grade 1020 steel Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 6
S Mfg Process Control for Bulk Suppliers Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 1
G What is robust threshold range level? I.2.2.15 Bulk Material (Ap - F) APQP and PPAP 1
W DFMEA (Design FMEA) for Bulk Material - Resin for Plastic Injection Moulding FMEA and Control Plans 1
Sean Kelley Is ppm calculation valid or invalid for bulk materials? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom