Updated MSA with the Annual PPAP validations

#1
Hello Forum,

My customer requested new MSA studies every year to be included with the annual submissions. Reviewing the PPAP and the MSA AIAG 4th Edition books and the ISO/IATF standard, I have not seen this requirement and also our customer's customer specific manual doesn't include this requirement as well. Based on the precise components that we manufacture and the gauges that are used, a Gauge R&R study can take from 2 to 3 weeks.

Could you please let me know if our customer request is valid?

Thank you
 
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John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
#2
Hello Forum,

My customer requested new MSA studies every year to be included with the annual submissions. Reviewing the PPAP and the MSA AIAG 4th Edition books and the ISO/IATF standard, I have not seen this requirement and also our customer's customer specific manual doesn't include this requirement as well. Based on the precise components that we manufacture and the gauges that are used, a Gauge R&R study can take from 2 to 3 weeks.

Could you please let me know if our customer request is valid?

Thank you
Not a requirement. Some companies charge for such things. I would recommend your
group gets involved and raises with their contact.
Hope this helps.
Be well
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Trusted Information Resource
#3
Agree w/John...usually a new MSA would be required is the process was significantly changed...inspection sequence/methods...your customer may be referring to Annual Part Layouts...at least in the auto arena...a +10 pieces full dimensional/inspection to help insure stable process...at least dimensionally
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#7
Is there any specific reason why they are requesting that study ? Did you change something in your processes?
Usually this is from someone who thinks he is "clever" or an auditor said something that he did not understand
The customer though can request what he wants you can choose whether you want him as a customer.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
Thanks for the feedbak @Kostas M ;

FYI....specifically I meant to state "I recommend your COMMERCIAL (i.e. sales) group...."

Best of luck.
In my experience, it's always best to avoid sales people when technical issues are being discussed. If you go through Sales, you will typically get an ignorant sales person communicating with an ignorant buyer, and the result will be fear, loathing and confusion. Let the supplier's quality people talk to the customer's quality people.
 
#9
No we haven't changed anything in our process. Our customer's customer requested annual MSA studies. I worked with our sales group and we already told our customer that we can perform the MSA studies at cost.
Thank you all for your assistance in this topic
 
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