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Use As Is, Repair, Rework - Useful when categorizing?

Q

QAMTY

#1
Hi all

I´m coming here again with this issue, differents doubts came out, please help me to clarify this point.

According to NC management, ISO :9001:2008

According to the clause:
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
8.3 Control of nonconforming product
(Company Name) ensures that product which does not conform to product requirements is identified and controlled to prevent its unintended use or delivery. A documented procedure is established to define the controls and related responsibilities and authorities for dealing with nonconforming products. Where applicable (Company Name) deals with nonconforming product by one or more of the following ways:
a) by taking action to eliminate the detected nonconformity,
b) by authorizing its use, release or acceptance under concession by a relevant authority and, where applicable, by the customer, and
c) by taking action to preclude its original intended use or application.
d) by taking action appropriate to the effects, or potential effects, of the nonconformity when nonconforming product is detected after delivery or use has started.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
My comment is I can comply with points a,b,c,d without mentioning Repair, Rework, Reject, etc.
I can describe it in differents words in my procedure.
Why is so common to use on the NCR forms, checkmarks to categorize them?
Sometimes I think the frontier between Use as is, Repair and reworks is not so clear and may be confusing or difficult to choose one and also may fail in the selection, thus
providing wrong information for audits, statistics.

Is it really useful to use the categories, and why ?
For example Now I showed my procedure explaining the categories to my fellows, and a lot of questions arose.
E.g.
1- In use as is , How much should be spent in time,money efforts to verify a product?
2- In Repair, At what extent should I fix my product to put it
to work again?
3 . In rework, Ok is to remanufacture in order to have the product ready complying with original specifications, but if I spend
little effort, may be a Repair?
and other questions....

Hope I explained well my doubts.

Thanks to all
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
T

TamTom

#2
Hi all

I´m coming here again with this issue, differents doubts came out, please help me to clarify this point.

My comment is I can comply with points a,b,c,d without mentioning Repair, Rework, Reject, etc.
I can describe it in differents words in my procedure.
Why is so common to use on the NCR forms, checkmarks to categorize them?
Sometimes I think the frontier between Use as is, Repair and reworks is not so clear and may be confusing or difficult to choose one and also may fail in the selection, thus
providing wrong information for audits, statistics.


Hope I explained well my doubts.

Thanks to all
Hello,

I see your point, but first a question, where is your difference between repair and rework?
And in my point of view in 80% of our issues, people are able to decide if a repair or rework is worth a try or parts shall be rejected at once.

And in the maximum 20%, where it is not so easily to decide, you need an escalation step. So if a person shall by check boxes make classification, give them also the checkbox "I don't know".

The check boxes are a good tool, to start immediate actions, if I need a rework, I can start it at the time someone made the mark in the checkbox.

A form can't satisfy all eventuality that are possible, but most people are discuss just these extrems when see a form. Ask them how often this is the case and how often they can decide?

Greetings,

TamTom
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Hi all

I´m coming here again with this issue, differents doubts came out, please help me to clarify this point.

According to NC management, ISO :9001:2008

According to the clause:
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
8.3 Control of nonconforming product
(Company Name) ensures that product which does not conform to product requirements is identified and controlled to prevent its unintended use or delivery. A documented procedure is established to define the controls and related responsibilities and authorities for dealing with nonconforming products. Where applicable (Company Name) deals with nonconforming product by one or more of the following ways:
a) by taking action to eliminate the detected nonconformity,
b) by authorizing its use, release or acceptance under concession by a relevant authority and, where applicable, by the customer, and
c) by taking action to preclude its original intended use or application.
d) by taking action appropriate to the effects, or potential effects, of the nonconformity when nonconforming product is detected after delivery or use has started.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
My comment is I can comply with points a,b,c,d without mentioning Repair, Rework, Reject, etc.
I can describe it in differents words in my procedure.
Why is so common to use on the NCR forms, checkmarks to categorize them?
Sometimes I think the frontier between Use as is, Repair and reworks is not so clear and may be confusing or difficult to choose one and also may fail in the selection, thus
providing wrong information for audits, statistics.

Is it really useful to use the categories, and why ?
For example Now I showed my procedure explaining the categories to my fellows, and a lot of questions arose.
E.g.
1- In use as is , How much should be spent in time,money efforts to verify a product?
2- In Repair, At what extent should I fix my product to put it
to work again?
3 . In rework, Ok is to remanufacture in order to have the product ready complying with original specifications, but if I spend
little effort, may be a Repair?
and other questions....

Hope I explained well my doubts.

Thanks to all
It sounds to me like you're not as concerned with compliance with the standard as with your company's process in dealing with NC material. The general idea is to capture costs associated with the various dispositions. In some cases, it might not be necessary or helpful to differentiate between rework and repair; repair can just be considered a type of rework.

In making dispositions of NC material, people who are familiar with the associated costs should be involved. There's always going to be a certain amount of guessing, but let it be educated guessing. The decision to ask a customer for a deviation/concession isn't necessarily going to be the same with all situations and all customers. It's determined case by case, and again you need someone who's familiar with the customer and the product to help inform the decision. It's almost never a good idea to just drop a problem in the lap of an engineer or quality manager; disposition of NC product should be the responsibility of a cross-functional group whenever possible.
 
G

Geoff Withnell

#4
Hi all

I´m coming here again with this issue, differents doubts came out, please help me to clarify this point.

According to NC management, ISO :9001:2008

According to the clause:
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
8.3 Control of nonconforming product
(Company Name) ensures that product which does not conform to product requirements is identified and controlled to prevent its unintended use or delivery. A documented procedure is established to define the controls and related responsibilities and authorities for dealing with nonconforming products. Where applicable (Company Name) deals with nonconforming product by one or more of the following ways:
a) by taking action to eliminate the detected nonconformity,
b) by authorizing its use, release or acceptance under concession by a relevant authority and, where applicable, by the customer, and
c) by taking action to preclude its original intended use or application.
d) by taking action appropriate to the effects, or potential effects, of the nonconformity when nonconforming product is detected after delivery or use has started.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
My comment is I can comply with points a,b,c,d without mentioning Repair, Rework, Reject, etc.
I can describe it in differents words in my procedure.
Why is so common to use on the NCR forms, checkmarks to categorize them?
Sometimes I think the frontier between Use as is, Repair and reworks is not so clear and may be confusing or difficult to choose one and also may fail in the selection, thus
providing wrong information for audits, statistics.

Is it really useful to use the categories, and why ?
For example Now I showed my procedure explaining the categories to my fellows, and a lot of questions arose.
E.g.
1- In use as is , How much should be spent in time,money efforts to verify a product?
2- In Repair, At what extent should I fix my product to put it
to work again?
3 . In rework, Ok is to remanufacture in order to have the product ready complying with original specifications, but if I spend
little effort, may be a Repair?
and other questions....

Hope I explained well my doubts.

Thanks to all
It's really not to complicated. Some organizations have somewhat different definitions, but these are what I have found to be most frequent:

Use as is (sometimes Accept as is) - The item, while nonconforming, will meet the intended use, and may be accepted with not further modification. Normally, this disposition requires some sort of customer approval.

Repair - The item is nonconforming, and requires a defined action to bring it to a condition where it will meet the intended use, but will still be nonconforming. E.g. welding a crack in a part. It is now usable, but non-conforming as the print does not include a weld. This disposition also normally requires customer approval.

Rework - The item requires an action which will bring it into conformance. E.g. stripping defective plating, and replating to the original specification. This disposition normally does NOT require customer approval.

Geoff Withnell
 
W

WKHANNA

#5
Thanks, Geoff!

That is the best definition set for 'use as is', 'repair' & ’re-work' I have seen yet.

In our facility, we also use the term 'Suspect Material' to sometimes describe product that has not yet received disposition (been categorized). The non-conformance must be verified by personnel authorized to make the disposition.

Or, if non-conforming parts are detected at the machine, then all parts made after the last inspection would be considered and identified as 'Suspect' until they were inspected 100%.
 
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