Use of Elevators during Emergencies

S

samsung

#1
Getting a lift to safety - ISO report reveals use of elevators may save lives in emergencies
Common wisdom dictates that we do not take lifts (elevators) when evacuating buildings. However, a new ISO technical report reveals that lifts may be viable escape options, and provides a decision chart to help identify risks. These findings may save the lives of people who have difficulties using stairs, such as the disabled, the elderly, or pregnant women and small children.
Visit this link for further details.

Your opinion please !
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#2
Getting a lift to safety - ISO report reveals use of elevators may save lives in emergencies


Visit this link for further details.

Your opinion please !
It seems worthwhile to me to evaluate risks and plan appropriate responses for the risks, as it's true that they are not all the same.

I'll further add that the subject is not new because of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). MTSU has a web page on the subject called Emergency Evacuation Procedures for Individuals with Disabilities. I wonder if this would provide you with some insights.
 
S

samsung

#3
It seems worthwhile to me to evaluate risks and plan appropriate responses for the risks, as it's true that they are not all the same.

I'll further add that the subject is not new because of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). MTSU has a web page on the subject called Emergency Evacuation Procedures for Individuals with Disabilities. I wonder if this would provide you with some insights.
Yes I agree to the fact that a risk assessment is vital but in most cases the risk assessment concerning emergencies, in general, and the fire, in particular, ends up with not using the elevators in emergencies. Even the linked page prohibits use of Elevators during emergencies. Hence the recent revelations by ISO Technical Report came as surprising since it is against the generally held concept of not using the lifts while escaping emergencies.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Yes I agree to the fact that a risk assessment is vital but in most cases the risk assessment concerning emergencies, in general, and the fire, in particular, ends up with not using the elevators in emergencies. Even the linked page prohibits use of Elevators during emergencies. Hence the recent revelations by ISO Technical Report came as surprising since it is against the generally held concept of not using the lifts while escaping emergencies.
Are elivators prepared for emergency ... ?
Overloaded and power is cut off, the elivator safely comes to level 0 and enables door opening at the push of an emergency knob ???
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Depends upon the emergency...Fire, explosion, earthquake, and stuff like that...NOPE:nope:

Medical emergency...YEP:yes:
 
#6
Thank you Samsung for this post.

Indeed we all know that we are not supposed to use the electrical lift during fire emergency. If experts have now come out with a recommendation contrary to this, there should be strong reasons and I belief that the conclusion is based on past data. It is also possible that the design of the electrical lift also has changed for better in the recent past allowing it to be used during fire emergencies. I am sure there will be many questions in the minds of people like me: (a) what happens if the power is put-off during a fire emergency? (hope the emergency power takes care) (b) what happens when the fire spreads through the lift ?, (c) what happens to the electronics of the lift ? Can the components and joints (solder) stand the temperature ? (d) what happens to the materials (like carpets, wood) in the lift - will they catch fire ? (e) what is the probability of electricution ?. It is obvious that experts have taken into consideration such questions that arise from even common people (i.e. not experts) and much more while recommending the use of lift during fire emergencies. It will be interesting to know the arguments for this recommendation.

With kind regards,

Ramakrishnan
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#7
Thank you Samsung for this post.

Indeed we all know that we are not supposed to use the electrical lift during fire emergency. If experts have now come out with a recommendation contrary to this, there should be strong reasons and I belief that the conclusion is based on past data. It is also possible that the design of the electrical lift also has changed for better in the recent past allowing it to be used during fire emergencies. I am sure there will be many questions in the minds of people like me: (a) what happens if the power is put-off during a fire emergency? (hope the emergency power takes care) (b) what happens when the fire spreads through the lift ?, (c) what happens to the electronics of the lift ? Can the components and joints (solder) stand the temperature ? (d) what happens to the materials (like carpets, wood) in the lift - will they catch fire ? (e) what is the probability of electricution ?. It is obvious that experts have taken into consideration such questions that arise from even common people (i.e. not experts) and much more while recommending the use of lift during fire emergencies. It will be interesting to know the arguments for this recommendation.

With kind regards,

Ramakrishnan
I have no doubt these are precisely the considerations that are supported by the organization I linked. I think this question's resolution should involve the expertise of electricians and elevator systems engineers. There may be developments we are unfamiliar with, as are hinted in on page 550 of the Electrical Engineer's Portable Handbook.

And so, in cases like this the proper role of quality/safety management system practitioners (us) should be to facilitate the process of deciding issues like this, not actually deciding them.
:2cents:
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#8
Not trying to go against an ISO standard:tg:, but I still caution against a practice of using elevators.

1. Now.... with people with disabilities, elderly and such, it's a different matter. Taking an elevator (with the risks) may mean the difference of them getting out. They simply cannot traverse 12 floors in a short time frame. However, how does one create a policy during a crisis to state: "ok, only this group can use the elevator if the building is on fire"?

2. There are all kinds of buildings (old and new), with all different kinds of design and safety features. Some buildings may be OK to try the elevators; others are not.

3. The problem is that elevators rely on electricity for their operation. If there is a fire, it may take out the electricity. Or, emergency services arriving to a scene may cut off the electricity to protect themselves entering a burning building.

4. Elevator shafts (and elevators) are not designed to adequately handle smoke and heat. Those shafts are chimneys, for the most part.:D One does not want to get caught in them.

I think the best plan is a good, well-thought out plan. Have a good evacuation plan, and assure people know about it. Also, if you have a building with more than one floor, why put elderly and disabled at the top?:tg: I mean, don't force them, but put them down lower to save them time anyway. Then in an emergency, they can get out quicker. Put the youngins' up higher, that can traverse the exits quicker.

Of course the best thing to do, is prevent fires in the first place.:)
 
S

samsung

#10
Thank you Samsung for this post.

Indeed we all know that we are not supposed to use the electrical lift during fire emergency. If experts have now come out with a recommendation contrary to this, there should be strong reasons and I belief that the conclusion is based on past data. It is also possible that the design of the electrical lift also has changed for better in the recent past allowing it to be used during fire emergencies. I am sure there will be many questions in the minds of people like me: (a) what happens if the power is put-off during a fire emergency? (hope the emergency power takes care) (b) what happens when the fire spreads through the lift ?, (c) what happens to the electronics of the lift ? Can the components and joints (solder) stand the temperature ? (d) what happens to the materials (like carpets, wood) in the lift - will they catch fire ? (e) what is the probability of electricution ?. It is obvious that experts have taken into consideration such questions that arise from even common people (i.e. not experts) and much more while recommending the use of lift during fire emergencies. It will be interesting to know the arguments for this recommendation.

With kind regards,

Ramakrishnan
Thanks for the comments. With the rapid advancement in engineering, it's now be possible to design & construct elevators with special characteristics safe for use even during the fire emergencies. As Jeniffer has also pointed, ISO's findings & subsequent reports must be based on similar considerations of technological advancements.

I have attached a 4 page article titled "PROTECTED ELEVATORS FOR EGRESS AND ACCESS DURING FIRES IN TALL BUILDINGS" describing the specific characteristics that an elevator, to be used during emergencies, must possess.

However, the current report 'ISO/TR 25743:2010, Lifts (elevators) – Study of the use of lifts for evacuation during an emergency' is yet to be studied. As of now, it's not available in our country.
 

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