Using Customer Audits as part of the Internal Audit Plan for ISO9001

[Randy]

I do not think that your concerns were part of Scott's question. I do not believe that it is the intent to have customer auditors come in and audit ALL processes and activities. But customer audits (just as in Scott's case) will happen and I believe that the audit results should be considered in the audit process. Nothing wrong with being pragmatic as long as the intent is clear that 2nd Party audits will not replace internal audits in its entirety.

Stijloor.

I think I said that at the bottom of my last comment

 

[ScottK]

I do not think that your concerns were part of Scott's question. I do not believe that it is the intent to have customer auditors come in and audit ALL processes and activities. But customer audits (just as in Scott's case) will happen and I believe that the audit results should be considered in the audit process. Nothing wrong with being pragmatic as long as the intent is clear that 2nd Party audits will not replace internal audits in its entirety.

Stijloor.

This is correct if I was to pursue such a course at some company, some day..

Randy - I think you would be surprised at how comprehensive some of our customer audits are.
Today, for example, three auditors are coming.
And we only make printed secondary packaging, for crying out loud. Fortunately we are part of a very large organization and have resources...
But this is ithe kind of thing that kills the smaller printers.

 

[jkuil]

Scott, Yes, you can use data (results) from your customer audits as part of the input into your internal audit, but not as your internal audit. Why? Mainly because you (your organization) have no ownership of their audit process which is an absolute for internal audits.

Custumer audits can be used in two ways as input:

First when setting up your internal audit plan. You have to have an internal audit plan that covers all processes. The extend/frequency at which you audit each process depends on the criticallity of the process and the historic performance of the process. Previous customer audits can be used as input for the performance evaluation.

Once you have determined your audit plan, you need to execute the scheduled audits. However, if an customer audit satisfies the needs for your internal audit, for practical reasons you may used the customer audit results in lieu of the internal audit. Following requirements should be considered:

• The scope and criteria referenced in the customer audit should be clearly specified in the customer audit report
• Document your justification why the customer audit satisfies your internal audit need

Especially the audit criteria may differ between your internal and custumer audits

• Internal audits determine whether the quality objectives of your company have been met
• Cusomer audit determine whether you quality system and product satifies your customer's needs and requirements

Be sure these two are alligned when you use customer audits to satisfy your internal audit program.

Lastly, be sure all audit criteria have been covered. You still need to audit the areas/criteria which have not been covered. If you have inadequate internal resource, you may outsource the activity. Be sure that the auditor you hire does understand your objectives with the audit and uses your quality system, including its objectives as reference.