Using Customer Unit as Reference Standard

E

EMacP

#1
Can someone help me to answer this question....
Currently my reference standard is send out for external calibration. Currently in hand I have a same model from one of my customer which I had just completed the calibration. Is there a possibility I can convert my customer's unit as my standard so that I can use it to calibrate another customer unit? If yes, what considerations do I have to follow? :confused:
 
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G

George Weiss

#2
You are asking an out of the box question, so here is an answer of same.
I have seen it done, that a device or material was temporarily tagged for identification purposes with a company ID, (your company equipment/material ID tag), and all normal documentation, including a file in your standards cabinet. The tagging was only for the moment, so the tag number never made it to a label on the standard. The temporary standard is now controlled as any other of your company’s standards, and their records. The customer’s calibrated item is evaluated as to it’s ability to perform the next calibration, meaning an uncertainty/specification analysis was done. Desireably a 4:1 TUR/TAR is present. A 1:1 TUR/TAR can be used in some cases where DUT bias is reported, and charted in normal course of calibration. A use-with-data-report-provided statement on CERT.
My opinion is that this is a poor idea, but is not excluded as an option.
You should consider discussing this with the customer who is getting his item tested with another customer’s standard. A written understanding would limit future issue(s)
A general comment would be, which is repeated in your quality procedures/manuals: "Write what you do, and do as you write"
You ask could I, and not should I. I hope this helps.
 
T

tbsiva

#3
I feel its a bad idea of referring one customers model as reference standard... If u can do like this, the purpose of reference will be lost.........After sometime, u will compromise urself to use any calibrated model as reference std..
 

harry

Super Moderator
#4
From the practical and business aspect, doesn't make sense but from the traceability angle, why not? - provided the traceability chain is complete and properly computed and carried out.
 
E

EMacP

#5
Thank you for the reply. This will not have happened when 2 of my standards have to be send for repair and cal at the same time. That is the reason I am checking whether this method can be used. I agreed abt the TUR/TAR 4:1 ratio and also the uncertainty of the standard. If using customer's unit is a not a good idea, isn't it the same if I loan a standard from company that do loaning service of instrument, making sure that the standard is calibrated with valid measurement report?
 
T

tomvehoski

#6
What are the actual units that you and your customer are using? IIRC, ISO 17025 requires traceablity to SI units. If you are using kg and your customer is using pounds (lb) then I don't see much of an issue as there is a simple converstion (lb = kg * 2.2).

If you are using meters and your customer is using his shoe size, then you have a problem as there is no way to establish a conversion factor.
 

Jerry Eldred

Forum Moderator
Super Moderator
#7
I believe all of the previous answers have covered the topic details. In simple terms, I believe you should not use a customer's instrument to calibrate a different customer's instrument. However, as was answered above, there are circumstances where you require creative methods to properly calibrate instrument.

There are many things that it is better not to do, but it is acceptable with restrictions. I believe the restriction should be that you receive written permission from both customers, that the reference standard you use must be the exact model as the normal one you usually use or have equivalent specifications, and the certification must meet the same criteria as your original.

I believe your qualiy manual/policy should also include a policy on how to do this. If it does not include this, you may want to consider adding it. And for traceability, assign a temporary unique identification where you can maintain the certificate for the customer's instrument in your quality records.

On numerous occasions, I have used a customer's instrument, but it was always for the same customer, not for a different customer. That to me is the questionable detail.

I also would not do it if this was for an ISO17025 accredited calibration under any circumstances. This is because the ISO requires the standard to be under the control of the laboratory.

I think I h ave probably repeated much of what was already said.
 
T

tomvehoski

#8
Ignore my post above. I read unit = unit of measure, not unit = piece of equipment.

Since you have not had control of the customer unit since it was calibrated, I would not trust it as a calibration standard. Even if you have a certificate for it that is traceable to the proper standards, how do you know it was not dropped, adjusted, broken, etc?
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#9
Since you have not had control of the customer unit since it was calibrated, I would not trust it as a calibration standard. Even if you have a certificate for it that is traceable to the proper standards, how do you know it was not dropped, adjusted, broken, etc?
And, if your customer quits doing business with you, you no longer have the standard. Can you, probably. Should you, probably not. I think even if a customer sent a standard for our use, I'd still double check it with one of our own calibrated standards, where I have complete traceability.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#10
From an ethical perspective, why not ask the owner of the equipment if they would do you a favor and let you use it to calibrate another customer's piece of equipment.

Depending on your relationship, how helpful you have been, and other circumstances not know by us, they just may be willing to be helpful. They may appreciate your initiative to ship the other customer's piece on time, and believe you would show the same devotion to them.

Make sure you have the traceability records you need though.
 
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