Using "ISO Certified" by Organization that is NOT Certified

[Helmut Jilling]

Unfortunately, 90% of the "ISO Certified" companies that I have seen, are ISO compliant for the week before the audit, then its back to business as usual for 51 weeks. Although the quality of work is the same, with this type of mentality, whats the point........ Other than to pay the Registrar $30,000+ for two days work......

Wow, what registrar are you using? Have I got a deal for you...

 

[donaghadee - 2008]

In the UK the Trades Desciptions Act would seem to cover any misleading claims

Trade Descriptions Act

"The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 makes it an offence for a trader to apply, by any means, false or misleading statements, or to knowingly or recklessly make such statements about services.

The Act carries criminal penalties and is enforced by local authorities' Trading Standards Officers."

If anyone was mislead into engaging this company by their misrepresentation there would seem to be a case to answer.

 

[Baldrick]

In the UK the Trades Desciptions Act would seem to cover any misleading claims

Trade Descriptions Act

"The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 makes it an offence for a trader to apply, by any means, false or misleading statements, or to knowingly or recklessly make such statements about services.

The Act carries criminal penalties and is enforced by local authorities' Trading Standards Officers."

If anyone was mislead into engaging this company by their misrepresentation there would seem to be a case to answer.

That's my understanding too.

When at my previous company I helped my boss prepare for a couple of court cases along these lines. We provided evidence that helped successfully prosecute two non-accredited CB's who had misrepresented their services. Unfortunately, the fines handed down were pathetic (a few thousand bucks) and the company owners simply went away, modified their literature slightly, and picked up where they had left off.

The other issue I would mention (Wesley Richardson touched on it earlier) was the number of companies who were once legitimately certified, but who then don't change their headed notepaper, truck livery, website etc. when their approval lapses. There are a lot of companies out there who still flash ISO9002:1994 badges at you. Some of these have simply failed to update their logo having legitimately upgraded to ISO2k, but many haven't and continue to trade on the "ISO badge".

I always call such companies and make sure they know what trouble they could be getting into if I were to pick the phone up and inform the relevant people. Some genuinely aren't aware, and take steps to make the changes. Others flip you off, and so I make my phone call.

Over-reaction? Not IMHO - we worked d*mn hard for our registration and I'm not going to sit around watching a bunch of (either) cheats or incompetents claiming the achievement without putting in the effort.

 

[Wes Bucey]

It seems obvious the registrars and the certifying bodies are ineffective when it comes to curbing a wrongdoer who claims "certification" when he means "compliant" simply because the miscreant merely has to say, "Oops! I meant 'compliant.'"

The only two places for recourse for a competitor appear to be

1. the federal government for "false advertising"
   and
2. a Public Relations campaign slanted at "educating" the target market about what "certification" is and really entails, including having the "bug" (logo) of an approved registrar who actually issues a certificate of registration.

The trick of the PR campaign has to be showing a REAL differentiation between a valid registration certificate and a "wannabe" claim to registration. As many threads here in the Cove attest, there are myriad organizations with valid registrations who provide terrible products and service!

If it were I faced with the situation for my organization. I would examine whether there can be sufficient market share involved to justify the effort in what is essentially a smear campaign aimed at a competitor, regardless of how prettified the language used.

Remember - the key phrasing is "certificate of registration to [actual ISO number]" together with the logo of the approved registrar versus "certified" in pointing out how to distinguish between real and bogus claims. Some threads here in the Cove have discussed a Great Britain company that declared itself a "registrar" and "certifying body" (no actual connection with other certifying bodies or ISO) to create a cottage industry in selling certificates of registration.

My bottom line: ignore the issue and concentrate on my own marketing.

 

[Laura M]

Unfortunately, 90% of the "ISO Certified" companies that I have seen, are ISO compliant for the week before the audit, then its back to business as usual for 51 weeks. Although the quality of work is the same, with this type of mentality, whats the point........ Other than to pay the Registrar $30,000+ for two days work......

Interesting. I would say more like 10% that I deal with 'slip.' My companies get 1-2 N/C's and are 'legit.' Not sure what end of the biz you are on. Are you talking about companies you audit, consult with or have worked at?

Most companies that I work with end up realizing it's easier to comply then to 'work around.'

I did have one where the CEO kicked me out by lunchtime of a 'gap assessment' and they were already registered, because the place was a disaster. Not sure if they were ever even compliant, but they had a cert from an ANAB registrar - talked about extensively in another thread.

But if someone is paying 30K for 2 days of work they consider non value added, then I suggest they are REALLY buying the cert because they don't have a legitimate chance of passing with a registrar with integrity. This doesn't do anyone in the company or industry any good. Some companies are arrogant because of their niche market and process knowledge and think they do 'quality work' with/without the cert and think that ISO wants to tell them HOW to do their job which is so untrue. They have very skilled folks and want to think that is enough, so ISO is just interference. If some of these companies would read the standard, deal with a legit consultant and registrar, then they could realize the benefits instead of lying and skirting the process.

 

[Craig H.]

Most companies that I work with end up realizing it's easier to comply then to 'work around.'

One sentence. I wish some folks would read it over and over again. Just one sentence.

 

[Cari Spears]

whats the point........ Other than to pay the Registrar $30,000+ for two days work......

Wow, what registrar are you using? Have I got a deal for you...

I was thinking the same thing - but then I checked ramore1's profile and it says there are "thousands" of employees. We have 65 employees here and our "registration costs" are $3,650.00 per year.

added - I should mention, since we're in the ISO forum, that this total is for AS9100 registration costs.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

I was thinking the same thing - but then I checked ramore1's profile and it says there are "thousands" of employees. We have 65 employees here and our "registration costs" are $3,650.00 per year.

added - I should mention, since we're in the ISO forum, that this total is for AS9100 registration costs.

Yeah, I assumed the "$30,000" was a rhetorical statement. Otherwise, I was going to offer to do it for $27,000 fixed!

 

[Cari Spears]

Yeah, I assumed the "$30,000" was a rhetorical statement. Otherwise, I was going to offer to do it for $27,000 fixed!

SOLD!!

 

[ramore1]

Actually, with my current employer, its around 140,000-160,000 employees depending on who you count. However my reference was to some past employers, vendors, and prospects. Approx. $30,000 was the charge, I don't think it would be appropriate to actually name them, including their travel, meals, rental car, and hotel accomodations. I just knew at that point, I was in the wrong business....... This was for a company that had 100 employees in 3 buildings, 2 within 20 feet of each other..... Guess I shouldn't worry about soured milk, just leaves a bad after taste you never forget.