Interesting Discussion Using "Not A Calibrated Device" or "No Calibration Required" stickers

#51
I'm composing a "calibration not required" memo and I plan of referring to the accuracy required justifies that no calibration is needed. We have aluminum rulers used in measuring fabric and straps. The rulers did not come with a manufacturers certificate of tolerance. The tightest tolerance is 1/2" of the items being measured. Isn't this a case of true "Calibration not required" AND a reason to take the measurement?
In a similar way, I use a form to document the reasoning behind "Calibration Not Required" and justify individual or families of equipment - for example process equipment gauges which indicate the presence of (oil) pressure.
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#52
I'm composing a "calibration not required" memo and I plan of referring to the accuracy required justifies that no calibration is needed. We have aluminum rulers used in measuring fabric and straps. The rulers did not come with a manufacturers certificate of tolerance. The tightest tolerance is 1/2" of the items being measured. Isn't this a case of true "Calibration not required" AND a reason to take the measurement?
You could do that and some auditors would accept it. But, there would always be an audit trail and a discussion about, "Are you sure it is only measuring something with a 1/2" tolerance?" I mean, even 2x4 lumber has tighter tolerance than that. And, tape measures can be off. I had a recent situation where I was working with a handyman on my closet, and the measurements I made were a 1/8" difference than the measurements he made with his tape. So, it can happen.

Perhaps a simpler and more effective solution would be to buy a 3 or 6 foot steel ruler, have it verified, tape it down on a table, then use it as a master to verify all your other rules and tapes. That way they are verified, you have records, and there is no debate during audits. Simple, elegant solution.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#53
I agree. How do you even know if your ruler is good to 1/2". It should be, but "should be" and what it "actually is" are different. I would want to see some kind of validation that would document that the ruler is valid to use. A master somewhere would do the trick nicely. Get a 12" (or any size) strip of steel and use a calibrated gage to measure it, and done. Just check your rulers against that. No need to "calibrate" them to it, just validate they indicate the correct measurements.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#54
I agree. How do you even know if your ruler is good to 1/2". It should be, but "should be" and what it "actually is" are different. I would want to see some kind of validation that would document that the ruler is valid to use. A master somewhere would do the trick nicely. Get a 12" (or any size) strip of steel and use a calibrated gage to measure it, and done. Just check your rulers against that. No need to "calibrate" them to it, just validate they indicate the correct measurements.
As calibration is nothing more than comparison to a "master" source, what you're suggesting is calibration. The act of calibration doesn't imply that adjustment is necessary or possible. The type of calibration being suggested introduces traceability issues, so nothing is really being gained by doing it in a situation where it appears that any form of calibration won't add any value. Doing something to avoid the wiles of an incompetent auditor isn't helpful either.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#56
I am suggesting calibration as a "one time" item. Thus "validation" prior to use. If someone brought in one of those "fisherman rulers", you know the type that 1" is really half an inch, the measurement could be off "per the ruler".
We validate rulers here, once, then label them "reference only", and "validate if damaged".
This is for items that are non critical (better define that), or items that will be inspected again further down the line. This way, there is a documented record that the equipment being used is at least looked at for suitability. Is it unnecessary? That depends on your customer/auditor. Do I do things for the auditor, NO, but management does.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#57
Seems a good place to repeat my post from a while ago re rulers...no stickers required ('cause they're a PITA)

See my post here...on this thread topic...

Just contact the manufacturer of the ruler, get the goods, and be done with labels on rulers altogether...
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#58
I am suggesting calibration as a "one time" item. Thus "validation" prior to use. If someone brought in one of those "fisherman rulers", you know the type that 1" is really half an inch, the measurement could be off "per the ruler".
We validate rulers here, once, then label them "reference only", and "validate if damaged".
This is for items that are non critical (better define that), or items that will be inspected again further down the line. This way, there is a documented record that the equipment being used is at least looked at for suitability. Is it unnecessary? That depends on your customer/auditor. Do I do things for the auditor, NO, but management does.
Call it "validation" if you want to, but it's still calibration. I'm a bit behind on ISO 9001, but in the 2008 version (7.6) it says this:

Where necessary to ensure valid results, measuring equipment shall
a) be calibrated or verified, or both, at specified intervals, or prior to use, against measurement standards traceable to international or national measurement standards; where no such standards exist, the basis used for calibration or verification shall be recorded (see 4.2.4)...

(My emphasis)

Assuming this is unchanged or substantially the same in the current version, the organization gets to determine when calibration is necessary, not the auditor.
 
B

BlytheRP

#59
Maybe the group can help me with this one: I wrote a nonconformance for a new machine that had not been validated via our change control process (requirement). This equipment also had a dial indicator. The other 3 older machines had calibrated dial indicators. The corrective action says that calibration of the dial indicator is not necessary because it does not make critical quality measurements and just used as a "guide." based on ISO 9001:2015 should this be the case?
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#60
Maybe the group can help me with this one: I wrote a nonconformance for a new machine that had not been validated via our change control process (requirement). This equipment also had a dial indicator. The other 3 older machines had calibrated dial indicators. The corrective action says that calibration of the dial indicator is not necessary because it does not make critical quality measurements and just used as a "guide." based on ISO 9001:2015 should this be the case?
Good Morning Sir BlytheRP, guide for what? if it's use as a guide, it's not valid saying that calibration of the dial indicator is not necessary 'cause you're saying that you use it as a guide, making it a reference in what you do.
 
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