Validity of ISO 9001:2000 Certificates - How to handle supplier ISO 9001 certificates

E

ermoth

#1
My company is TS certified, but I have a question for how to handle supplier ISO 9001 certificates.

I have had very nitpicky registrar auditors in the past...so bare with me. Or is it bear with me? ;)

Anyway, I'm revising our Quality Manual to match the changes made in TS16949:2009. In section 7.4.1.2 the standard reads "Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party, registered to ISO 9001:2008 by an accredited third-party certification body."

My research tells me that ISO 9001:2000 certificates are still valid up until November 2010. Some of my suppliers have ISO 9001:2000 certs that don't expire until 2011. One of them has stated that their last surveillence audit was to the 2008 standard, but ISO will not issue a new certificate until the current one expires in 2011.

Should I add a note to my Quality Manual that says ISO 9001:2000 will be acceptable until November 2010? And what do I do with the supplier described above?
 
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W

world quality

#2
Re: Validity of ISO 9001:2000 Certificates - How to handle supplier ISO 9001 certific

This is how I understand it and check with TC176 too.

• Published November 15, 2008
• Can begin auditing to ISO 9001:2008
• Effective November 15, 2009:
• ISO 9001:2008 certificates will be issued
• Effective November 15, 2010:
• ISO 9001:2000 certificates will be invalid
• Impact: Must transition to ISO 9001:2008 or lose
your certification.
 
E

ermoth

#3
Re: Validity of ISO 9001:2000 Certificates - How to handle supplier ISO 9001 certific

This is how I understand it and check with TC176 too.

• Published November 15, 2008
• Can begin auditing to ISO 9001:2008
• Effective November 15, 2009:
• ISO 9001:2008 certificates will be issued
• Effective November 15, 2010:
• ISO 9001:2000 certificates will be invalid
• Impact: Must transition to ISO 9001:2008 or lose
your certification.

Well, I hope my supplier will figure this out sooner or later. They don't seem to want to take my word for it now.:rolleyes:
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: Validity of ISO 9001:2000 Certificates - How to handle supplier ISO 9001 certific

Well, I hope my supplier will figure this out sooner or later. They don't seem to want to take my word for it now.:rolleyes:
A minor point - ISO does not issue a certificate of registration, nor can it revoke one or invalidate one - only a third party registrar can do so.

Another minor point - perhaps your supply chain criteria are a little lacking in whether they specify the third party registrar be "accredited" by an Accreditation Body. Some of our mavens here in the Cove can cite you chapter and verse as to what you need to assure you some consistency in "reliability" as well as "validity" of certificates of registration from third party registrars.
 
G

gramaley

#5
Re: Validity of ISO 9001:2000 Certificates - How to handle supplier ISO 9001 certific

The point that the certificate must be accredited is indeed important.

ISO doesn't certify anyone. "Credibility" is not based on the fact it is an "ISO" certificate. If you want, I can send you a piece of paper with ISO 9001:200X and make it look really pretty with some official looking emblems on it, and I won't charge you a penny, but the certificate would only be worth as much.

It drives me a little crazy that people see an ISO 9001/13485/22000/27000 certificate, and just because it has familiar looking ISO on it, they trust it. There are a lot of CABs worldwide that charge lots of money, and yet they do not abide by the international rules for conformity assessment (e.g. ISO 17021).

If you want to determine the credibility of a certificate, try this sometime. Look at the name of the CAB (see attached Swedish company). Go to their website and try and find a directory that shows they actually certified the organization. This is how you know it is not a fake certificate. If it is not a fake, your next step is to make sure it is "credible" (Accredited to international norms established by the International Accreditation Forum). To do this, look for the Accreditation mark. In the attached example you will see "SWEDAC". Go to the SWEDAC website and look in their directory, to see if the CABs is accredited to do the kind of audits they performed on the manufacturer. If they are, you have an "accredited" certificate...but

How do we know SWEDAC is capable of assuring that the CABs is doing a good job? SWEDAC should be listed as an IAF member signatory "Accreditation Body" to the IAF Multilateral Recognition Arrangement (MLA). Its easy to find SWEDAC on the www.iaf.nu website.

The IAF is considering building a database of accredited certificates so you don't have to trot around the internet, fiddling with a google translator and Chinese script, to determine if a certificate is accredited and not a fake. This was something ISO recently decided to cooperate with the IAF to help develop. It is years away perhaps, but the goal is clear. In any language, any of among the 2 million organizations that are certified under the international infrastructure of enforcement, managed ultimately by the IAF, these organization will all be freely accessible to lookup to anyone. Will we find your certificate there? Not if I made it for you.

I shake my head that people trust an "ISO" on any certificate, without realizing the immense amount of layers of enforcement to the international norms ISO 17011, ISO 17021, IAF MDs and A1 and A2 documents that IAF enforces among the regions of the world. These are all part of the larger worldwide "accreditation system" that underpins credible certification for more than 70 nations on every continent. We (including myself) pay many thousands for what we believe are credible certificates, and some of those certs are not worth the paper they are printed on. In the same way, many are much better than we might ever imagine, but we refuse to believe it unless it comes from a big-name CAB.

This dental company in Sweden paid good money for a good cert, and a lot of others were involved to make that happen. This is why Accreditation is so important to us all. It makes our $10,000 certificate worth a million bucks.
 

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