Value adding for Internal Quality Audit training

B

berseak

#1
If your delegates are more experience then you but you are the trainer.
How can you provide benefit for them?

Thank you
Berseak
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
With great difficulty I think!

I am not sure under which circumstances the delegates would have more knowledge of auditing than the trainer.

They may of course have more general business knowledge and more specific knowledge about their own business which is fine but it would be odd if they knew more about the subject of the training course.
 
#3
If your delegates are more experience then you but you are the trainer.
How can you provide benefit for them?

Thank you
Berseak
Why would anyone put a trainer with less experience in front of delegates who have more experience? How did that happen? Perhaps your 'training process' needs improvement......:notme:
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#4
If your delegates are more experience then you but you are the trainer.
How can you provide benefit for them?

Thank you
Berseak
More experienced in what way? More experienced as auditors or more experienced of how the company functions?

The trainer should be able to teach things that the trainee doesn't know. If you know more about auditing because of training you have had, then it should be no problem to pass that on.

In any class, there is a diversity of experience. Diversity in both depth and breadth. It is not uncommon for a few students to even know more on some of the topics than the teacher. Great teachers know how to get participation from them and enrich the class.
 
#5
If you know more about auditing because of training you have had, then it should be no problem to pass that on.
I'm not sure that's true Jim. Over the years I was an Excel Partnership trainer, quite a few people came to class with the expectation that they were going to 'take back' their experiences of learning in class to teach other auditors.........

That's really scary, when you think about it, isn't it? Here's someone who has only the experience of auditing - in the class room - and who knows what competency to train! Plus, the materials they have aren't the 'instructor manual', so what are they going to use to convey concepts etc????

And that's even before you take a closer look to see if they violated our copyright, which I had found in the past.....

No, without (wide ranging) experience most of this type of skills training is ineffective, IMHO!
 
Last edited:
A

auditguy

#6
First, I landed here by investigating a recent Tweet! I have Twitter doing a daily search for the terms "quality" and "audit" and somebody posted a link tweet to this question. Is that cool, or what?

Now to the question and my response.

This happens to me all the time. For in-house as well as public classes, but mostly in-house. Many of the course participants have lots of experience - in their firm's field of expertise. I don't know all the details of how to manufacture dental tools or evaluate a loan application or store whole blood. They know a lot more about those technical topics than I.

But I give them a systems perspective. How to look at the bigger picture. What other organizations are struggling with. How to overcome adversity. As an outsider, I add value by getting my participants out of their comfort zone and exploring the questions that deal with business values.

I also pass on tid-bites and techniques they hadn't thought about.

Finally, I show them how to use the internal audit in a way that is much more powerful - to the firm - than the typical registration audit. ISO 19011 is a decent document for those performing conformity assessments, but falls short on how to provide business value to the audited organization.
 
P

Polly Pure Bread

#7
1. Prepare
2. Make your message clear. Clarity is crucial to conducting effective and efficient training. It minimizes confusion and conflict.
3. Keep your message direct, simple, and concise. This will prevent misunderstanding and save training time.
4. Provide examples to illustrate your point or let them share their experiences. Since you are the driver, you can take advantage of using their experiences to support your point. Involve them. Just keep an open mind – listen to your participants (the whole message) before deciding.
5. use icebreaker See this site :D
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#8
I'm not sure that's true Jim. Over the years I was an Excel Partnership tariner, quite a few people came to class with the expectation that they were going to 'take back' their experiences of learning in class to teach other auditors.........

That's really scary, when you think about it, isn't it? Here's someone who has only the experience of auditing - in the class room - and who knows what competency to train! Plus, the materials they have aren't the 'instructor manual', so what are they going to use to convey concepts etc????

And that's even before you take a closer look to see if they violated our copyright, which I had found in the past.....

No, without (wide ranging) experience most of this type of skills training is ineffective, IMHO!
You should read the entire post, not just what you quoted. You ended up with a very narrow perspective.

If there is a student in the class that has more knowledge or experience than the instructor, it would be a very narrow instructor that ignored it.

I have had my share of teaching experience and it looks like your teaching style is very different than mine. I'm not intimidated by students that know more than me and I welcome their contributions.
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#9
Are those delegates getting trained in their subject of expertise or are you training them something different that they dont know ?
 
#10
You should read the entire post, not just what you quoted. You ended up with a very narrow perspective.

If there is a student in the class that has more knowledge or experience than the instructor, it would be a very narrow instructor that ignored it.

I have had my share of teaching experience and it looks like your teaching style is very different than mine. I'm not intimidated by students that know more than me and I welcome their contributions.
We're not talking about the same thing, IMHO, Jim!

My assertion is - you can't be a good instructor (let's say of internal audits) if all you've done is sit in someone else's class!

I would hope I had a different style Jim! I'm from a different background, culture etc. I'm sure you get good reviews, so do we all.......

I fully understand that people come to class with more knowledge about (some) things than I have - except the topic we're teaching (otherwise, why would they be there?) I believe you've taken my comments out of context........
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Adding Value prior to signing EASA Form 1 EASA and JAA Aviation Standards and Requirements 5
W Quality for value adding or certification? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 23
V What are the Value Adding Quality Assurance Processes and how to measure them? Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 3
N Pivotal in Value adding to the Implementation of Management System ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
E Adding value to audit using checklist & getting results ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
J Adding Value to a 3rd Party Audit - What does 'Value Added' mean to you? General Auditing Discussions 25
M External Auditors - Value Adding Audit & Consultancy General Auditing Discussions 3
M Is quality control a value adding process? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 112
M Determining a tolerance value for Measuring devices in-house inspection General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 12
Proud Liberal Improving low p-value Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 13
BeaBea Registrars with VAR (Value Added Reseller) experience Registrars and Notified Bodies 8
qualprod Best approach to get a real value as average? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 6
F Missing value of Uncertainty B Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 10
F Calibration certificate content - Average Value and True Value ISO 17025 related Discussions 6
S In BAC5300 we have machining mismatch allowed is 3tau, what is the value of tau? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
S Change value of target during a batch Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 0
A Acceptance p-value for linearity and bias analysis in minitab results Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
A Torque Value for Different types of Fasteners (Socket Head, Button Head, CSK) Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
M IATF 16949 - 8.5.6.1.1 Providing a list of process controls: Does this requirement add value to QMS? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
qualprod Cycle times, value stream mapping, inventory, average values? Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 1
Ashok sunder What are the criteria for setting a target KPI value against a quality objective? Benchmarking 7
M Creating a Plant Level Value Stream Map Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 1
A IMDS - Changing the Locked Weight Value RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 1
T Value Chain Map for Food Services Industry Service Industry Specific Topics 1
O P-Value less than 0.05. but everything else in control Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 19
qualprod P x I = Value interpretation for residual risk? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
O CPK with a P value less than 0.005 Manufacturing and Related Processes 8
G What degrees of freedom means in uncertainty budget and how do I set the value Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 2
Q Really do they add value (Vision, Mission, Values)? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
D What is the exact Temperature Coefficient Value to be set on a Conductivity Meter? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
M Value Stream Mapping Calculations Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 5
L How to interpret the average R bar Value shown in the R Chart Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
G Non Value Added Corrective Actions IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
R How To Calculate & Print CDF and Lower Bound CDF value for some t(time) with Minitab? Using Minitab Software 1
P Purpose of calculating Uncertainty value in calibration study Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 5
J Agenda of Value Stream Mapping workshop required Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 1
M What is the value of documenting in-process rework for easily-detectable issues? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 4
R VSM - Value Stream Mapping (catheter manufacturing unit) Customer Complaints 10
T Cpk for 0 as Ideal Value Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 1
dubrizo Internal Audit Value - What is the point of conducting internal audits to a checklist Internal Auditing 40
L 5 minutes only for this Survey on the Value of PDCA and Your EMS Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 1
M How calculate P value for Linearity and Bias using Excel Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 8
J F and P-value in L9 Taguchi Design Using Minitab Software 22
S Value of Ppk or Cpk when targeting thinner material Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4
B How to validate Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet Calculations for the Cpk value Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 9
V Analysis of 'Value Added' System & Process Steps - Inspection Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 2
P Which ISO 13485 clause(es) are applicable for Value Proposition Creation ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
R The Value and Effectiveness of In Process Inspection Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 17
D Value-Added Analysis - Staff (Employee) Satisfaction Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 11
T ISO Auditor Training - What online training is actually value added? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13

Similar threads

Top Bottom