VDA audit, control plan - My hair is almost gone now

jimmymustang06

Involved In Discussions
#1
So, does everyone really include all process parameters on their control plans? We will not be doing this. We have 75% market share and we did not get that way by giving our competitors a leg up.. we have timing, temperatures and pressures that are proprietary. I can't believe a company would expect another to just give up all of their hard work..

This auditor is saying that we have to include all parameters on our control plans. She goes on the say that she does not need to "receive" the document, that she can audit it next time in person, BUT we are a commodity product supplier. Our quality documents are in families. I can't add something to one control plan for one customer and then not include that control plan in PPAPs to a bunch of customers.. wtf!?!
 
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Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Can you add the process parameter, but keep the values "secret?" Maybe refer to an internal document of some type for the actual value.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#3
So, does everyone really include all process parameters on their control plans? We will not be doing this. We have 75% market share and we did not get that way by giving our competitors a leg up.. ...
Highlighted the key word as it pertains to trade secrets (in my experience).

If you use your control plan as part of your work flow, you may handle it one way.
If you use it to satisfy a customer requirement, you may go another.

We put some of the obvious parameters in the CP...but only by reference to other documents which were not for sharing ("Fire at temperature specified in Formula Document")...
Some we just left out of the CP altogether...for the same reason you want to.

No auditor ever saw a formula document...ever...processes, sure...trade secrets, nope.

This approach did, however, require the rest of the structure to be aligned to allow for it.
It is reasonable for an auditor to know that there is guidance for how to make something (there better be!).
It is reasonable to know what areas must be controlled and how they are controlled.
Seeing the nitty gritty about what it is controlled to...we never even got asked, and we would not have shown it if we did.
Show how you know what to control it to...yes (in a dummy document).
Show the actual trade secret? uh-uh

The NDA with the auditor is much lighter than the NDA for an employee...and far harder to prove breach. I was sometimes surprised we got away with it, likely since we were willing to show the process and controls of a non-secret product.

:2cents:
 

Kiran Walimbe

Involved In Discussions
#4
So, does everyone really include all process parameters on their control plans? We will not be doing this. We have 75% market share and we did not get that way by giving our competitors a leg up.. we have timing, temperatures and pressures that are proprietary. I can't believe a company would expect another to just give up all of their hard work..

This auditor is saying that we have to include all parameters on our control plans. She goes on the say that she does not need to "receive" the document, that she can audit it next time in person, BUT we are a commodity product supplier. Our quality documents are in families. I can't add something to one control plan for one customer and then not include that control plan in PPAPs to a bunch of customers.. wtf!?!
Dear Jimmymustang06,
Pl. Realize that your auditor needs to audit your processes as per the guidelines of VDA 6.3. One of the audit point needing answer and rating based upon the findings is ‘Are the requirements of the control plan complete and have they been effectively implemented? – P6.2.1.’ If the auditor cannot verify conformance, he/she has no option to give a Zero rating, which in turn pulls down your score.
Moreover, VDA training inculcates a strict code of conduct amongst the certified auditors which ensures confidentiality. So, I guess, it is better to open up.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#5
... which ensures confidentiality. So, I guess, it is better to open up.
Nothing has been invented yet that "ensures confidentiality" with humans yet.
an NDA or code of conduct is a desire written on a piece of paper.

Set barriers against breach, sure...but nothing can stop a human from blabbing other people's secrets...just watch the news.

I would only open up as far as absolutely necessary to achieve your goal.
...and I would make sure it was absolutely necessary, and not a human's desire.
 
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