VDA6.3 as internal audit tool

[Kris N]

Hello all,
A customer requests us to use VDA6.3 for internal auditing. I do not see any added value in this, doing this on top of our internal QMS auditing and the mandatory product audit we are doing.
What are your experiences with this?
Thanks!
Kris.

 

[Pawel Zelazowski]

Three types of audits have to be established in the organization to cover the quality management program as comprehensively as possible:

1. QMS system audit, based on IATF and VDA6.2 standards. // cover QMS topics
2. Product audit, for example, based on standard VDA6.5. // cover product
3. Process audit, which can be based on VDA6.3 or LPA standards (why not) // cover manufacturing and co-manufacturing processes

Customer request was touch only process audit and base VDA6.3 checklists.

 

[Kris N]

Three types of audits have to be established in the organization to cover the quality management program as comprehensively as possible:

1. QMS system audit, based on IATF and VDA6.2 standards. // cover QMS topics
2. Product audit, for example, based on standard VDA6.5. // cover product
3. Process audit, which can be based on VDA6.3 or LPA standards (why not) // cover manufacturing and co-manufacturing processes

Customer request was touch only process audit and base VDA6.3 checklists.

Hello Pawel, - thanks for the guidance!
But when checking the process control plan application via the QMS audits, the manufacturing process is already covered? What is then the difference with a process audit?

 

[Pawel Zelazowski]

Process audit cover much more points, example (VDA6.3):

P5: supplier management + warehouses + supply inspection
P6: process release + maintenenace management + operators skils managements + process indiators + process output (also warehouses) + non conformity management (don't thing You cover tha by control plan) + control tools management (also included MSA) + ...
P7: customer satisfaction management and how customer service is providing (including aftermarket service, and elements how to be prepared for it)


process audit is not only describing this what is happend on production line - but also everything around: this is process

 

[Kris N]

Process audit cover much more points, example (VDA6.3):

P5: supplier management + warehouses + supply inspection
P6: process release + maintenenace management + operators skils managements + process indiators + process output (also warehouses) + non conformity management (don't thing You cover tha by control plan) + control tools management (also included MSA) + ...
P7: customer satisfaction management and how customer service is providing (including aftermarket service, and elements how to be prepared for it)


process audit is not only describing this what is happend on production line - but also everything around: this is process

When we are audited by VDA6.3, all the evidence we show on all the subjects mentioned, is documented in our QMS, so a QMS audit is covering it already, what is then the added value of re-doing this audit with the VDA6.3 checklist?

 

[Pawel Zelazowski]

I don't think that the QMS covers 5S topics or walk on warehouses or the realization of a total maintenance plan -> but true, it defined requirement in this topic.

Look on that, this way: process audit touch production process with coperative sub-processes; System coform existing process with requirements.

 

[Kris N]

I don't think that the QMS covers 5S topics or walk on warehouses or the realization of a total maintenance plan -> but true, it defined requirement in this topic.

Look on that, this way: process audit touch production process with coperative sub-processes; System coform existing process with requirements.

So with a QMS audit alone, you do not have the oversight as you have with a process audit. QMS is checking more conformity to individual procedures to requirement, while with a process audit the focus is more on the total result of the process itself. And the advantage of using VDA6.3 would then be that you are sure that the full process is covered.

 

[ElenR]

Three types of audits have to be established in the organization to cover the quality management program as comprehensively as possible:

1. QMS system audit, based on IATF and VDA6.2 standards. // cover QMS topics
2. Product audit, for example, based on standard VDA6.5. // cover product
3. Process audit, which can be based on VDA6.3 or LPA standards (why not) // cover manufacturing and co-manufacturing processes

Customer request was touch only process audit and base VDA6.3 checklists.

Hello Pawel,
Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect, the P6 of the VDA 6.3 is for manufacturing processes similar to IATF Clause 9.2.2.3 requirements.

 

[malasuerte]

@Kris N So if you are truly covering VDA clauses in your QMS audits, then why can't you just do a VDA audit?

Why are you making things so difficult? Simply translate the relevant clauses, score them per VDA and voila, you have a VDA audit.

We do this all the time and it is simple.