Verification at the supplier's premises - ISO 9001:2000 Clause 7.4.3

[Carlos Echeverry]

Hi there

What do you think about this situation (from real life).

Our company buy some agroindustrial product (palm oil fruits) and we've determinated purchasing information as the standard requires.

We use to inspectate the product as soon as it arrives to our Palm Oil Mill to ensure that product meets specified purchse requirements.

Lately we've detected that "perhaps" our inspection is not enough and "maybe"our suppliers may affect the final product they give us in our Plant. In other words, there are some agronomics cultures that allow a supplier to gather theirs fruis in bad conditions in their plantation and send us the fruit and with out actual analysis we will not detect the bad conditions of the fruit gathered under bad conditions.

So, we are thinking in goto to their plantations to verify randomly if they are using those wrong agronomic cultures without touch any kind of method of product release (the product release will be still managed by our Plant Oil Mill).

Finally the question is: Must we make some arrangements in our purchasing information? because chapter 7.4.3 says: "Where the organization or its customer intends to perform verification at the supplier's premises, the organization shall state the intended verification arrangements and method of product release in the purchasing information." or this sentence just will apply if we decide to modify our actual method of product release to be used in their plantations???

 

[howste]

Based on what you said, it sounds like you do need to include something in the purchasing information. You should at least specify that you reserve the right to come onsite for inspection.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Too much of a political animal?

Based on what you said, it sounds like you do need to include something in the purchasing information. You should at least specify that you reserve the right to come onsite for inspection.

Perhaps I am too much of a political animal, but I think there is a less confrontational way to accomplish your goal.

Delete the words "inspection" and "audit" from your vocabulary when you visit a producer. Give ample notice (written) and say (the truth), "As part of our supplier verification procedures, we'd like to have one or more of our people come and do a routine confirmation of your good production techniques."

The implication of the wording "routine confirmation" and "your good production techniques" is that you don't suspect anything wrong. This will practically FORCE the supplier to welcome you. Anything else would make waves and wave red flags. Think of it. Could you possibly refuse such a benign request from any of your customers without antagonizing them? Your supplier will feel the same subtle pressure.

Further, by implying you expect good production techniques, the supplier will not be on his guard and change things just for your visit.

If you are sure he is doing dastardly stuff, ask a few offhand questions like (forgive me, but I don't know what "bad conditions" are - this is just a sample), "What do you do with the staff when the conditions are too bad to gather the fruit? Do you just send them home or do you have them work on other projects?"

Follow up with a seemingly simple question to one of the staff, "What do you do when you get sent home because the conditions are too bad?"
or
"Do you like the change of pace when you ________ when the conditions are too bad to gather fruit?"

It is doubtful the producer will have prepped staff to answer falsely and consistently with the producer's response.

Tips:

1. Have two inspection checklists - one benign for show and tell, the other with your private agenda.
2. Ask the most questions where the producer is doing good work "by the book."
3. Try not to act like a policeman doing an interrogation.
4. Remember, your advantage is that you know what you really want to check, the producer doesn't.

 

[Carlos Echeverry]

Thanks for the fast replies but it seems I forgot to add some vital information about our business.

We have another Plant Oil Mill as rivalry. They are not certified. They accept any thing from theirs suppliers. The short future is they will start to work under QMS.

In our influence area there are like 40 suppliers, just for we both (the another plant as us).

We know for sure, ours suppliers use the bad tecniques to save money in their plantations, but that affects directly our quality product and our efficiency. But the main point is that at this moment we will go to their plantation and we will confirm (sometimes in the past we did and we found them making in the right moment that wrong activity), they are acting wrong. But we will not be able to try to pusnish them, because they will run away to sell the raw material to the other Plant.

The thing at this moment is purely "cultural" and we are trying to deal with them by the soft way. Trying to demostrate them, that if they change their mind we both (Supplier and us) will win.

In the last 2 months we've been doing those inspections in their plantations without take further actions, just to take notes about who is doing bad things and to try to talk with them about benefits if they forget those tecniques. In the meantime, we are talking too with the rival Plant Oil Mill, about the needs to setup a same way to purchase those fruits from all zone suppliers. And it seems this will be accepted in the medium term of time.

The activity with our suppliers perhaps take months, and we must accept any thing they send us until we be able to change their mind. (we have a method of product release already written to accept any kind of their things). But checking the product information we don't mention nothing about routine confirmation in their plantation. Must we?

 

[thomascz]

That's right.

I'm agree with your opions. But I'd like that it may state more about production.