Definition Verification vs. Validation - What are the differences?

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S

Sardokar

#82
i work for a software development compant ( in part)

Can we say that design verification is made by our internal testers

and design validation is made by the customer ?
 
S

Sardokar

#83
Basically what i wanted to know if the things below are wrong , its a part of our quality manual ( work in progress)


7.3.4 Design and development review

(our company) design and development programmers internally test the sub-product at regular intervals during its development life as to insure the continual compliance with the customer requirements as well as to detect any problem and take necessary actions to fix it.
Records of the results of the reviews and any necessary actions are maintained by ( our company) design and development team.

7.3.5 Design and development verification

Once the different modules of the product are developed, (our company) design and development team proceeds to an in depth testing and debugging of the completed product as to ascertain its full compliance to the customer requirements and as to detect any problem not previously detected by the review phase.

Records of the result of the verification and relevant actions taken are maintained by (our company) design and development team.

7.3.6 Design and development validation

Before delivering the product to the customer (our company) requires from the later a formal signature on an approval letter certifying that the product fully complies with the original inputs.
Records of the results of the validation and any resulting necessary actions are maintained.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#85
i work for a software development compant ( in part)
Can we say that design verification is made by our internal testers

and design validation is made by the customer ?
Basically what i wanted to know if the things below are wrong , its a part of our quality manual ( work in progress)
As long as it is effective, I believe that you are meeting the requirements of the standard, but I do see a weakness.

Since the standard requires that you perform validation it is a weakness to pass the entirity of that on to the customer. I read from the standard that you still have a requirement to do what you reasonably can to validate the design.

Another approach would be to go through the thought process to determine if the ending product is suitable for its intended use. This is often done by a different engineer than the project manager that developed the design, a peer. Having the customer sign off as well is still a good idea.

Based on wht you have posted, if I audited your company, I may write an observation showing that there is a risk that validation may not be effective.

Others may have different opinions.
 
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W

w_grunfeld

#87
Dear all,

I shall give an analogy that comes to my mind to illustrate the difference between verification & validation though this may not fit the definitions exactly. e.g.

Here is a new car that has just come out of the line. You make certain verification checks before road test - brakes OK?, All controls on dashboard OK? Gear (manual) change is fine? Engine start/stop perfect? Batteries, accessories etc. fine?

Once the verification checks show that the car has all the promise of meeting your expectations, you go for a test drive to see the actual performance of the vehicle including operation of all controls, comfortable driving etc. You are validating what was verified earlier.

You may also compare it with ground checks and run-up of a new aircraft before actual trial by test flights.

Jupitor
Dear Jupitor,
Unfortunately you picked a very bad "analogy" as the automotive inustry has very precise and dictated mandatory ways of what design verification and design validation mean and how they need done.
Thankfully both are done very differently than in your analogy. Too lengthy for a post on this board- take a look at TS6949 just to have an idea.
An automotive part doesn't even get anywhere near an assemply plant before it is both verified and validated (PPAP process)
 
W

w_grunfeld

#88
Basically what i wanted to know if the things below are wrong , its a part of our quality manual ( work in progress)
It seems that your company's product is software. You are mixing up things. Design review as it's name implies reviews the design -while your manual speaks of testing code, if you go straight from requirements to coding shows me that there is no top level and detailed level design.....so perhaps there is nothing to review.
In an ISO process (or indeed in any software development methodology) one can't skip design entirely.
There are always exceptions....if your software product's requirement (design input is to add a to be and calculate the result a+b, you may do that, but I assume it gets a bit more complicated than that. The design verification is all the tests you run at the unit and module level up to and including testing the completed product. Incl. sanity tests, functional testing, GUI, Config and so on- everything that is meant to verify that the software does what it is supposed to do.
In validation testing (part of it is Beta testing ) you are mostly concerned testing that the software performs in the customer's environment, platform and application (most likely with some interaction with other sysytems and applications!) Also things such as real life load, stress and scalability belong to validation. Amother crucial type of tests included in validation , is to verify that the product does NOT do what it is not supposed to do (hang, crash, erroneous results, ....) Depending on how limited or good is your ability to emulate the customers environment and applications, you may involve "selected customers" to serve as your beta testers of an early limited version that you release as a beta version. In no case can you say that validation is the customer's job!!! Results of beta testing need to be collected , analyzed and FIXED before releasing a full production version.
Well you can but won't be in business for too long in the best case or worse ...tell a nuclear plant or even a bank that you have this great innovative software reviewed,
verified...and all they need to do is validate it...:))
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#89
Since the standard requires that you perform validation it is a weakness to pass the entirity of that on to the customer.
I have seen this many times. An example was a client that manufactured elevator cars. There was no financially viable way to validate their product. Their 'validation' was customer use. If a customer had a complaint, then they would take that as a design input (when applicable) but they didn't test anything except raw materials.

There are many things that can only be validated through customer use.
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#90
Queen Cities of the World

:topic:

"Queen City" is the nick name for Charlotte in North Carolina.

Stijloor.
And Cincinnati, OH.

Cincinnati Historical Society said:
How did Cincinnati come to be known as the Queen City?
During the first forty years after its founding, Cincinnati experienced spectacular growth. By 1820, citizens, extremely proud of their city, were referring to it as The Queen City or The Queen of the West. On May 4, 1819, B. Cooke wrote in the Inquisitor and Cincinnati Advertiser, "The City is, indeed, justly styled the fair Queen of the West: distinquished for order, enterprise, public spirit, and liberality, she stands the wonder of an admiring world." In 1854, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow wrote his poem, Catawba Wine, to memorialize the city's vineyards, especially those of Nicholas Longworth. The last stanza of the poem reads:

"And this Song of the Vine,
This greeting of mine,
The winds and the birds shall deliver,
To the Queen of the West,
In her garlands dressed,
On the banks of the Beautiful River."
 
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