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Waiver for ISO/TS 16949

R

Rob Mcfee

#11
Re: Waiver for ISO/TS16949

Scenario: A product group develops products for commericial market, including automotive. The company has CSR's from major automotive Tier 1's requiring TS 3rd party certification. The company's factories are all TS certified. The product group is only ISO9001 certified but claims they have a waiver for TS with the Tier 1 purchasing their product. Evidence of this is approval of PPAP including PSW with a statement declaring the product is developed under ISO9001 only. Product groups says all products are manufactured in factories that are TS certified.
Can they do this?
I have seen waivers issued to product design groups in similar situations to which you are describing. It is my understanding that the IATF may be issuing an SI in the coming months to address this issue.

Essentially the scenario is that a product group may be performing design activities in response to general market demand for 'catalog' parts. These parts will then be sold to a range of industries (this is particularly prevalent in the electronics industry) including automotive. The parts supplier is not in this scenario considered 'design' responsible since they are not aware of, or are designing a part for any specific automotive application. Consequently the design verification and validation activities are the responsibility of the purchaser (be it an OEM or tier one) as they must ensure that the part is fit for the application to which it is being applied, (this brings up a whole second series of much debated points as to the definition of design responsibility, but for now lets just discuss the applicability of the waiver).

Technically since the interpretation of the CB is that their approach is meeting the requirements of the Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition, no waiver as such is required. But in all likelihood since currently this is a 'hot' issue with the IATF, the CB probably approached their Oversight office and got an agreement to proceed with this course of action.

However the organisation being certified would not be able to exclude product design from an ISO 9001 audit activity, interestingly this activity would incorporate any and all customer requirements which could include the application of APQP and other automotive specific tools, but only if the organisation being audited has identified any specific external customers as part of the design process.

As a final note a signed PSW does not in itself constitute a waiver of a TS requirement. Customers cannot dilute the requirements of the specification, they can waive their own customer specific requirements if they see fit, but not the requirements of the specification.
 
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Big Jim

Super Moderator
#12
Re: Waiver for ISO/TS16949

You address the requirements for 7.2 and 7.3 as defined in ISO 9001:2008. If the customer wants you address additional requirements, such as things in TS 16949, the customer flows them down to you as requirements in purchasing documents or contracts.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#13
Re: Waiver for ISO/TS16949

If the design location is part of the same company, it must be included in the scope of the certificate(s) of the manufacturing site(s) it supports. As such, the location must be audited as part of the manufacturing site audit. Having just an ISO 9001 certificate is not acceptable:
TS Rules 3rd Edition said:
Supporting functions, whether located at the manufacturing site or remote from a manufacturing site, are not eligible for independent ISO/TS 16949:2009 certification but shall be included in the scope of certification.
TS Rules 3rd Edition said:
Supporting functions on site or remote (e.g. product design, contract review, purchasing, warehouse, etc.) shall be audited as required to support a site, but shall be included in the initial stage 2 audit at least once more during the surveillance audit cycle and the recertification audit. Any exceptions to this requirement at the recertification audit shall be justified, documented and shall be submitted to the relevant IATF Oversight office for review and approval prior to audit.
Any exception would have to be approved by the IATF oversight office.
 
N

ntrprizxile

#14
Re: Waiver for TS16949

I would contribute to the post.
It seems to me that you are following the typical approach of a foundry model.
I would like to known if the design center and the manufacturing site belongs to the same company or not. Manufacturing sites that realize product for automotive market shall have TS ceritifcation. They shall also demonstrate to have the design of the manufacturing process. They can mantain out of their scope of the certification the design of product.
In any case case if there is a waiver for design , it could be ok . In any case some requirements of the automotive customer, such as DFMEA can be request in PPAP market.
We should know more about the details of how you are organized, I mean if you are the same company or not. In any case if there is the requirement of your customer that only mfg site have to be ISO TS certified, this is what shall be met.:bigwave:
Qusys, the product group is part of the same company that also contains the factories.
 
N

ntrprizxile

#16
Yes, it appears very clear that an in house product group designing products for automotive customers can not cannot meet their customers CSR's with a waiver for TS.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#17
Re: Waiver for TS16949

Qusys, the product group is part of the same company that also contains the factories.
Thks,
I think that howste and the others have offered a right contribution.
Based upon the considerations , also design center shall be audited vs ISO TS and assure compliance to the technical standard, being a support function belonging to the same company of the manufacturing sites, that realize product for automotive sector.:bigwave:
 
Last edited:

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#18
Yes, it appears very clear that an in house product group designing products for automotive customers can not cannot meet their customers CSR's with a waiver for TS.
Hi,
I would like to post another contribute for this question.
The support function of product design for your mfg site shall be included too in your QMS and show the interaction with your QMS processes.Besides, it will be audited vs ISO TS requirements too.Hope this helps:bigwave:
 
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