Warranty - Is Warranty a Service or not per ISO 9001

N

nharris840

#1
We are a design and manufacturing company providing Search and Rescue Equipment to the Aerospace Industry as well as State/Local Government organizations.
We are currently undergoing our AS9100/ISO 9001 Audit and our auditors have stated to us that Warranty Repair/Rework is "Service" under the Standard. This has not been our historical position and have always taken exclusion for this since we do not perform "service" operations in the field or at customer sites. Is there any clear definitions or statements for "warranty" and "service" with respect to the AS9100/ISO 9001 requirements. I have not been successful in identifying any so far that would help resolve this "non-agreement" between us and our Registrar.
Norm:thanx:
 
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#2
Re: warranty - is it service or not per ISO 9001

You are correct. Service (servicing) is something you have an agreement with the customer, to perform work on the product after sale/installation etc. Not all companies do it. Warranty is, in my experience, nothing to do with service and is often part of the non-conforming product process........

Appeal to the auditors' management - during the audit, if necessary. Get them to rule. If it's still not satisfactory - find another registrar.......;)
 

Sidney Vianna

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#3
Is there any clear definitions or statements for "warranty" and "service" with respect to the AS9100/ISO 9001 requirements. I have not been successful in identifying any so far that would help resolve this "non-agreement" between us and our Registrar.
Norm
If you use the latest draft of AS9100 Rev. C, which incorporates the DIS of ISO 9001:2008, paragraph 7.2.1 a) talks about post-delivery activities. The note under 7.2.1 states that post delivery activities do include actions taken under warranty.
 
#4
But at this stage of the 'game', a CB auditor cannot hold a client hostage to a draft..........can they?

BTW - since it's a note, wouldn't the OP still be in a reasonable position to refute the (minor) finding? (if the standard were now released with that note)
 

Sidney Vianna

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#5
But at this stage of the 'game', a CB auditor cannot hold a client hostage to a draft..........can they?

BTW - since it's a note, wouldn't the OP still be in a reasonable position to refute the (minor) finding? (if the standard were now released with that note)
Certainly an auditor can not invoke a requirement of a draft standard neither invoke a note as a requirement. My intention was to use the draft of ISO 9001:2008, which is meant to CLARIFY the requirements of the current standard.

I still do not understand what the big deal is. If the organization "services" the products under warranty, they have to ensure that the processes which comprise the warranty services are done appropriately. And that goes beyond simply repairing or replacing malfunctioning product.

So, if their CB consider warranty services as part of servicing, what is the big deal? Servicing, in the context of ISO 9001/AS9100 has never been defined by in-house or off-site activities. Do you train your customer employees on how to safely and effectively use your products? That is servicing. (just an example)
 
#6
I agree, Sidney.:agree1:

I'm not trying to make a big deal of anything.;)

However, it seems to me that if the company excludes servicing, then deals with warranty in its qms under non-conforming product, including disposition etc (repair, replace etc) then that should be up to them to decide.

My point is that for a CB auditor to simply state that their interpretation is warranty = servicing - and then write a non-conformity against that statement - is inappropriate:yes:
 

Sidney Vianna

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#7
I'm not trying to make a big deal of anything.
I was not referring to you about a big deal. I was referring to the OP.:agree:
However, it seems to me that if the company excludes servicing, then deals with warranty in its qms under non-conforming product, including disposition etc (repair, replace etc) then that should be up to them to decide.
My concern with this approach is that, if you treat warranty services as a subset of non-conforming product, you are not required to do planning of the warranty service processes (as you would, if you were handling it under AS9100 Rev. C, paragraph 7.5.1.4{still in draft}, instead of paragraph 8.3) Further, in my understanding it is possible to perform services under repair for a product that is not non-conforming, but might need adjustment.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#9
Re: warranty - is it service or not per ISO 9001

No matter how many times I read either the ISO 9001:2000 or the AS9100B I cannot find any justification for saying that warranty is not service. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Please quote the standard, not opinion. Even if you apply 8.3 (and you should where it applies) that cannot relieve you of the requirements of other elements.

I agree with your auditors.
 
Last edited:
J

joshua_sx1

#10
The last paragraph of 8.3 states that “when nonconforming product is detected after delivery or use has started, the organization shall take action appropriate to the effects, or potential effects, of the nonconformity”

…the key words are “the organization shall take action appropriate to the effects, or potential effects…” – which means, it is the organization itself who is going to decide what actions they are going to take since they themselves should know the consequences of the nonconformity…

…going back to the inquiry whether warranty - is part of service as per ISO 9001 or not? the answer is there, it’ll be depend on the organization itself of how they are going to define “warranty” and/or “service” on their business… the most important is, they have to comply with the requirements whether by using “warranty” and/or “service”…
 
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