Interesting Discussion Was this the fastest ever stage 2 ISO9001:2015 audit?

[tony s]

Isn't 1 Major NC enough not to recommend an organization for certification? And this can only be determined during a stage 2 audit.

 

[Randy]

2 hours now way, never happen! According to IAF MD-5 para 2.2.3 audits have to be to 1/2 day (0.5 day) increments if this is an accredited CB.

 

[poh.s.lim]

Isn't 1 Major NC enough not to recommend an organization for certification? And this can only be determined during a stage 2 audit.

Hi Tony S,

Yes a single major nonconformity is sufficient to delay certification until it has been rectified. But having said that, so long as the major nonconformity is addressed and rectified, certification can proceed and eventually the organization will be certified. Major nonconformity is typically issued at Stage 2 audits, where the yardstick used is conformity of the requirement. Stage 1 audits are really documentation system readiness audits and usually if the documentation is deficient, it is fixed as a nonconformity to ensure that minimum documentation is available to support the Stage 2 audit.

 

[Randy]

Isn't 1 Major NC enough not to recommend an organization for certification? And this can only be determined during a stage 2 audit.

Yes it is and it has to be cleared or at least lowered before the Stage 2 can proceed (at least if it's an Accredited CB involved)

 

[poh.s.lim]

2 hours now way, never happen! According to IAF MD-5 para 2.2.3 audits have to be to 1/2 day (0.5 day) increments if this is an accredited CB.

Yes, probably the CB was not accredited.

 

[AndyN]

Isn't 1 Major NC enough not to recommend an organization for certification? And this can only be determined during a stage 2 audit.

Paradoxically, I heard a company got 4 majors and 7 minors and "heard" they were recommended... This was an AS9100 audit. Plus the auditor spent a lot of their time "helping" the clients. WTH is going on in the Certification world?

 

[Randy]

Paradoxically, I heard a company got 4 majors and 7 minors and "heard" they were recommended... This was an AS9100 audit. Plus the auditor spent a lot of their time "helping" the clients. WTH is going on in the Certification world?

Too much PC, lack of honesty and truthful dealings because nobody wants to hurt someones feelings?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

WTH is going on in the Certification world?

20+ years of commoditization and trivialization of management system certification, CB excessive focus on the paying customer (registrant) satisfaction and total disregard for the expectations of certificate users, an accreditation sector that is long overdue for reengineering, users of certificates that are totally ignorant about course of action when supplier certified systems have substandard performance, professionals that resist the idea of CB’s being kept accountable to the certificates they issue, the welcoming of blind gopher auditor types, etc...

That’s what has been happening for a long time.

 

[AndyN]

20+ years of commoditization and trivialization of management system certification, excessive focus on paying customer satisfaction and total disregard for the expectations of certificate users, an accreditation sector that is long due for reengineering, users of certificates that are totally ignorant about course of action when certified systems have substandard performance, professionals that resist the idea of CB’s being kept accountable to the certificates they issue, the welcoming of blind gopher auditor types, etc...

That’s what has been happening for a long time.

Well yes - I meant it rhetorically...

 

[Ninja]

20+ years of commoditization and trivialization of management system certification, excessive focus on paying customer satisfaction and total disregard for the expectations of certificate users, an accreditation sector that is long overdue for reengineering, users of certificates that are totally ignorant about course of action when supplier certified systems have substandard performance, professionals that resist the idea of CB’s being kept accountable to the certificates they issue, the welcoming of blind gopher auditor types, etc...

...and the apparent lack of establishing any type of effective oversight of the CB other than by the users paying for it...

The person needing/wanting the cert should not/must not/cannot be the oversight committee, that dog don't hunt.
The result of setting things up that way is to marginalize the whole standard in the long term...and the term is getting long...

Please see Posts 11-14 here. Same thing...

Blind Gopher is a result, not a cause. The cause is right there in your post...commoditization, customer pleasing, and lack of monetezied value of having a cert.

Best regards,
The person who started the blind gopher comment and resulting backlash