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Interesting Discussion Was this the fastest ever stage 2 ISO9001:2015 audit?

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B

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#62
#62
At the very least it is confusing because of the lack of clarity.

Unless you think it is a good idea to build traps into the standard that will lead users astray. I don't.
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#63
#63
Big Jim said:
"The answer is, all they did was inform me... I had to do the paperwork to correct the spec. What do you want me to do, agree with you?"

It looks like you just did. There was more to it than just informing the customer. A mutually agreeable solution was determined.
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You are putting YOUR spin on this to justify your point, which is fruitless. The numbers suggest more see your point of view as incorrect than support it. Apparently you know more about the situation than I do, even though you weren't there, which makes any comments from now on completely futile. My last posting on the topic. Bye.
 
tony s

tony s

Information Seeker
Trusted Information Resource
#65
#65
If just "informing the customer" will satisfy 8.7 if an organization provided nonconforming products/services to its customer. Then, using the same logic, if a bank lose a customer savings - the bank only needs to "report this to the customer and retain documented information on what has occurred" and this can already satisfy 8.5.3.:read:
 
J

jmech

Trusted Information Resource
#67
#67
Big Jim said:
Thank you. Yes, defending the indefensible 8.7.1c is just as silly as you example.
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In the case of nonconformance detection after product has been delivered and consumed, if the customer refuses to grant a retroactive concession, what else should the standard require for dealing with the nonconforming outputs?

Keep in mind that a corrective action to prevent recurrence (as required by 10.2) is not dealing with the nonconforming outputs.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#68
#68
jmech said:
In the case of nonconformance detection after product has been delivered and consumed, if the customer refuses to grant a retroactive concession, what else should the standard require for dealing with the nonconforming outputs
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The answer is right there in b) product return, also known as recall.

I really don't understand what is so controversial in 8.7 as it applies to the whole product realization cycle from raw material and components incoming all the way through after delivery.
 
J

jmech

Trusted Information Resource
#69
#69
Sidney Vianna said:
The answer is right there in b) product return, also known as recall.

I really don't understand what is so controversial in 8.7 as it applies to the whole product realization cycle from raw material and components incoming all the way through after delivery.
Click to expand...
Product return is not possible if the nonconformance detection occurs after the product has been consumed.

I also do not see the problem with 8.7. It gives the minimum requirements that are always applicable. They make sense.
 
B

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#70
#70
jmech

I beg to differ with you about the application of 10.2. It certainly DOES NOT exclude nonconforming outputs.

"10.2.1 When a nonconformity occurs, including any arising from complaints, the organization shall . . ."

Perhaps you are trying to dodge 10.2.1a2 "deal with the consequences . . ."

What doesn't make sense is as plane as the nose on your face. To say that "one or more" and then listing something that could never be used by itself doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize as a problem.
 
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