"We don't have enough resources" as an Audit Non-conformance Response

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#11
Yes to most of them; it was identified in internal and external ISO audits. It's a requirement of the QMS so if you're not keeping training records you're already at fault so by definition you're not fulfilling the QMS.
Your original question was posed as a hypothetical, but now you say that the deficiency in question has been identified in both internal and external audits. Which is it? What actually prompted the question?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
What I mean is that part of the standard includes leadership providing the resources to support the Quality Management System, but what I'm running into is people who are already very busy saying "we just don't have time" to do specific tasks that are required (like tracking training records etc.) -- if your organization is failing to perform tasks related to the QMS and the excuse is that they don't have resources, one possible NC is against "resourcing"
Yes absolutely
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#13
I work for a not-for-profit community healthcare provider - we're the ones that come into your home after you're discharged from the hospital, yet continue to require some form of care and/or assistance. The bulk of our business is paid from a government-related organization. This organization has mandated certain performance targets that all service providers are expected to meet.

One of these targets is impossible to meet based on province-wide shortage of qualified and competent staff. Yes, part of this availability may be based on pay, cost of living, etc, but every service provider (i.e., our competition) has the same difficulty that we have - recruiting and retaining staff.

The organization that pays us and our competition has issued many quality notifications (i.e., nonconformances) to us and our competition on the failure to meet the performance target. We typically respond with the staffing issue as part of our root cause analysis. Sure, we can implement actions to continue recruiting/retaining staff, but the resource challenge is faced by all of us.

We've even implemented some long-term actions such as meeting with our competition to find creative ways to increase enrollment at local colleges for the program that will increase the number of people qualified for the jobs we offer.

And the organization that pays us is unwilling to change their target. So, we end up spending time and money and extra resources responding to these notices, providing updates, and implementing actions that will go no where...and continue to receive these notices or have a discussion on market share if they remain open for too long.

I realize that my situation isn't audit-based, but I would think that as long as you can demonstrate that you have done the planning and training and everything possible to obtain/retain those human resources, it is an acceptable response. Some aspects of the employment market are outside of our control.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#14
The previous revision of AS9100 (Rev. C) stated: "A documented procedure shall be established to define requirements for; … b) determining the causes of nonconformities,...". I used to like that requirement. Rev. D is much less prescriptive.

If the organization still meets this requirement, would the procedure allow for that response?

A 5 why would make you keep digging:
Insufficient resources. Why?
Ineffective resource utilization? Why?
Communication issues between shifts\departments? Why?
No process in place. Ahhh…. Now what?

Put in a process to discuss resource needs during shifts\between departments.
 

pkost

Trusted Information Resource
#15
I work for a not-for-profit community healthcare provider - we're the ones that come into your home after you're discharged from the hospital, yet continue to require some form of care and/or assistance. The bulk of our business is paid from a government-related organization. This organization has mandated certain performance targets that all service providers are expected to meet.

One of these targets is impossible to meet based on province-wide shortage of qualified and competent staff. Yes, part of this availability may be based on pay, cost of living, etc, but every service provider (i.e., our competition) has the same difficulty that we have - recruiting and retaining staff.

The organization that pays us and our competition has issued many quality notifications (i.e., nonconformances) to us and our competition on the failure to meet the performance target. We typically respond with the staffing issue as part of our root cause analysis. Sure, we can implement actions to continue recruiting/retaining staff, but the resource challenge is faced by all of us.

We've even implemented some long-term actions such as meeting with our competition to find creative ways to increase enrollment at local colleges for the program that will increase the number of people qualified for the jobs we offer.

And the organization that pays us is unwilling to change their target. So, we end up spending time and money and extra resources responding to these notices, providing updates, and implementing actions that will go no where...and continue to receive these notices or have a discussion on market share if they remain open for too long.

I realize that my situation isn't audit-based, but I would think that as long as you can demonstrate that you have done the planning and training and everything possible to obtain/retain those human resources, it is an acceptable response. Some aspects of the employment market are outside of our control.
It sounds like the root cause is a contractual issue. Your organisation agreed to provide a service to an agreed level when this was not possible due to the level of funding in the contract and the inherent local employment situation.. (I assume you have reviewed expenditure elsewhere and it cannot be diverted to staffing?)

Your corrective action should be around contractual review.

I'm being somewhat facetious, but this is the crux of the matter. The other organisation is not helping matters by apparently accepting the status quo; they should either penalise you and your competition for failure to meet contractual obligations or accept the change to the metric. If they penalise everyone they will ultimately be unalbe to find a party willing to provide the service and therefore have to change their metrics.
 
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