What are APQP and PPAP?

S

Saksham

Well I am new to this forum and new to the PPAP world.
I have been required to submit a level 3 PPAP for a 300 piece lay out, along with a P.O. for 10,000 pieces for the same part. However the P.O. also includes 300 piece lay out in its item description but the bills are equivalent to 10000 pcs.
Now i am confused. Does that mean I have to first send a pilot lot of 300 pieces with the PPAP documentation or should i send the entire lot with a seperate lot of 300 with PPAP documents?
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Well I am new to this forum and new to the PPAP world.
I have been required to submit a level 3 PPAP for a 300 piece lay out, along with a P.O. for 10,000 pieces for the same part. However the P.O. also includes 300 piece lay out in its item description but the bills are equivalent to 10000 pcs.
Now i am confused. Does that mean I have to first send a pilot lot of 300 pieces with the PPAP documentation or should i send the entire lot with a seperate lot of 300 with PPAP documents?

Welcome to the Cove. :bigwave:

It's unlikely that you're expected to lay out 300 pieces. The default requirement is a minimum 300-piece production run, and layout of a specific number of pieces, which could be as few as one. It would probably be inadvisable to run 10,000 pieces before you have PPAP approval, because if the PPAP isn't approved due to nonconformities you might have to scrap or rework all of them.

You need to read and understand the AIAG PPAP manual and speak with your customer to confirm what's actually required.
 
S

Saksham

Thank you for your help, Sir.

I talked to the Company contact and in their own words they say "Please make sure you do a 300 piece run for the Level 3 PPAP. You only need to do a 6 piece layout but the PPAP will need to be approved before you start production runs."

Now this makes much more sense.
However I still have no clue how to go about it.
Now, I first need to manufacture 300 pieces, right?
Please advise me the right source to learn about this process.

Thank You. :)
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
As Jim mentioned, you need to have a copy of the AIAG PPAP manual. It's available directly from AIAG in electronic or hard copy form. There may be another source that's closer to your country if you want the hard copy.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Thank you for your help, Sir.

I talked to the Company contact and in their own words they say "Please make sure you do a 300 piece run for the Level 3 PPAP. You only need to do a 6 piece layout but the PPAP will need to be approved before you start production runs."

Now this makes much more sense.
However I still have no clue how to go about it.
Now, I first need to manufacture 300 pieces, right?
Please advise me the right source to learn about this process.

Thank You. :)

Many non-automotive companies have adopted (or adapted) the AIAG PPAP process for qualification of new parts. If your company is one of those, you'll need to speak with them further to make sure your understand their requirements. In automotive work, PPAP is the output of the APQP process, which means that by the time you're ready to compile the PPAP package you will have already done things such as PFMEA and a process control plan. Those are both elements of a Level 3 submission. You will also need to do capability reporting for special characteristics, if there are any. Some customers require capability studies even when there are no customer-designated special characteristics.

Do you have the AIAG PPAP manual? If you don't, you're going to have to get one. Is this a new customer? If so, you need to make sure you understand ALL of the contractual requirements before you do anything. For example, what happens if there's an engineering change to the parts after you've run 300 parts but before PPAP has been approved?

If this is a non-automotive customer, it's especially important that you understand what they require. We can help you get through the process, but first you have to be sure that all of the requirements are properly documented and understood.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
Thank you for your help, Sir.

I talked to the Company contact and in their own words they say "Please make sure you do a 300 piece run for the Level 3 PPAP. You only need to do a 6 piece layout but the PPAP will need to be approved before you start production runs."

Now this makes much more sense.
However I still have no clue how to go about it.
Now, I first need to manufacture 300 pieces, right?
Please advise me the right source to learn about this process.

Thank You. :)

This is the item of PPAP related to the "run at rate", when the organization runs an established number of production item to be sure that it is able to produce at volume in mass production.:bigwave:
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
This is the item of PPAP related to the "run at rate", when the organization runs an established number of production item to be sure that it is able to produce at volume in mass production.:bigwave:

No. The PPAP "significant production run" and run-at-rate are two different events. Run-at-rate typically takes place after PPAP approval and serves to verify the supplier's capability of producing conforming product at the rate given on the PPAP warrant or the customers' purchase order.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
No. The PPAP "significant production run" and run-at-rate are two different events. Run-at-rate typically takes place after PPAP approval and serves to verify the supplier's capability of producing conforming product at the rate given on the PPAP warrant or the customers' purchase order.

Thank you Jim for precision, I was assuming that they were the same thing based upon what the post said.
However I have not understood yet if the run at rate has been done or not, as per post of the Cover, as well as PPAP signed or not.
Probably additional details are requested.
 
M

Maculia

Apqp

Does anyone have a procedure for executing APQP for a Unique Product organization? I would appreciate for your attention.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Apqp

Does anyone have a procedure for executing APQP for a Unique Product organization? I would appreciate for your attention.

Welcome to the Cove. :D

What sort of unique product are you referring to? APQP is basically the same for all products, so if you could give us an idea as to why you think that standard methods might not be appropriate we can provide better information.
 
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