What are the points to be discussed in a Management Review Meeting (MRM)

[qusys]

MD = Managing Director

Stijloor.

Ah ok, thanks.
So I confirm what I wrote in my prior post concerning with roles and responsibilities in mgmt review, if the procedures or other document could help to do so

 

[PE-2011]

Thanks.

Maheswari

Ah ok, thanks.
So I confirm what I wrote in my prior post concerning with roles and responsibilities in mgmt review, if the procedures or other document could help to do so

 

[PE-2011]

Competence, Training and awareness - ISO 9001 clause No.6.2.2

Hello,

Soliciting good suggestions - like what is the method you people are using to evaluate training effectiveness.

Method to comply "competence".

Regards
Maheswari

 

[qusys]

Re: Competence, Training and awareness - ISO 9001 clause No.6.2.2

Hello,

Soliciting good suggestions - like what is the method you people are using to evaluate training effectiveness.

Method to comply "competence".

Regards
Maheswari

There are several options, it depends.
For instance, you can evaluate the competence with a written test to the trainee in the phase pre-training and post-training ( in case of a class training), or if he /she obtain a certification/diploma with an external training provider.
In second instance, you can evaluate it in the performance evaluation of a resource, if he/she reaches the planned results and so he/she shows competence in what he/she is supposed to do as per job assignements.
In case of a training on the job ( on the production field), the supervisor can control how the trainee performs the job after a planned period of formation with a certificated peer of the same workstation.
Hope this helps

 

[PE-2011]

Re: Competence, Training and awareness - ISO 9001 clause No.6.2.2

there was a case sometime back.

ISO 9001 6.2.2 a) says "determine the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements". Now the question is who will determine? Concerned person from Human Resources department? or the employees himself? or reporting authority of particular employee?

clause e) says "maintain appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience". Problem was - HR department implemented online manpower request system where education, basic skills, experience was showing, but was not very proper. HR argued, they cannot maintain such matrix because standard asking continual improvement and according the market growth, the required skills will grow for each and every requirement. Then it should be filled by concerned reporting authority every time. Is it correct? Is this sufficient to fulfill this clause?

 

[qusys]

Re: Competence, Training and awareness - ISO 9001 clause No.6.2.2

there was a case sometime back.

ISO 9001 6.2.2 a) says "determine the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements". Now the question is who will determine? Concerned person from Human Resources department? or the employees himself? or reporting authority of particular employee?

clause e) says "maintain appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience". Problem was - HR department implemented online manpower request system where education, basic skills, experience was showing, but was not very proper. HR argued, they cannot maintain such matrix because standard asking continual improvement and according the market growth, the required skills will grow for each and every requirement. Then it should be filled by concerned reporting authority every time. Is it correct? Is this sufficient to fulfill this clause?

Q1: You should apply a process approach in designing training process with roles, responsibilities, procedures, KPI, tools and linked/support process. From what I have seen in some organizations I visited, the supervisor has the responsibility to make a training program for his/her collaborators , based upon the needs and the expectations of the professional roles of the reporting people. On the other hand, HR should set the policy and issues procedures to facilitate the process.

Q2: ISO 9001 issues requirements that each organzation can fullfil in different ways. What you ask is related to the design of the training process. I think that a ( automatic) tool is important for the process, but first of all you shall determine the process itself. Tool is instrumental to the effectiveness of the process, but it should not drive it. I think you shall make some fine tunings to the process, establishing the clear responsibilities for the several activities

 

[somashekar]

Re: Competence, Training and awareness - ISO 9001 clause No.6.2.2

there was a case sometime back.

ISO 9001 6.2.2 a) says "determine the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements". Now the question is who will determine? Concerned person from Human Resources department? or the employees himself? or reporting authority of particular employee?

clause e) says "maintain appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience". Problem was - HR department implemented online manpower request system where education, basic skills, experience was showing, but was not very proper. HR argued, they cannot maintain such matrix because standard asking continual improvement and according the market growth, the required skills will grow for each and every requirement. Then it should be filled by concerned reporting authority every time. Is it correct? Is this sufficient to fulfill this clause?

Training is a planned activity to bridge the gap between have and need. These needs can be of the present or future requirements. In both the cases someone above in the organization who knows the requirement and knows what they have will plan for the bridging of the gap by means of some training or other means of their human resource.
So the one who determines the effectiveness will be the one who determines the gap and takes steps to bridge the gaps.
But the personnel who undertake the training are also capable of evaluating the effectiveness of the training taken up. This is the immediate effectiveness or also called as training feedback which the nominated personnel for a training can provide. The real effectiveness will come from the performance noticed and assessed by the responsible manager over time. Both together will form the effectiveness.
There are several methods adopted for this and one that suits the organization best can be adopted.
HR as a functional department can at best facilitate this process and maintain records, however the various functional heads or responsible managers are the persons who have to plan training and provide training (HR can facilitate) and evaluate the effectiveness of the training provided.

 

[somashekar]

Dear Mr.Somashekar,

Thanks. Please see quote of Stevek. As a quality manager he is chairing the MRM. Similar way MR can chair the MRM. is it? MD can also chair the MRM?

All these meetings and stuff springs up from a mindset that management review records must be management review meeting minutes. From this springs up the thought that management review meetings must be held periodically, and from this .... someone has to be chair person.
This is not the requirement.
Management review must be an ongoing affair and several types of quality management system MIS reporting must be in place in order to get the QMS performance measure and on a broader scale the organizational performance measure. These must be having good links to show continuity of performance measures.
The standard lets us know those specific areas which when reviewed and decisions , actions taken., determine the health of the QMS and an organization can review stuff much more than what is stated in the standard.
Trust me, those who maintain management review meetings minutes (MRM minutes) as management review records neither really have meetings conducted nor any discussions over it.

 

[samsung]

Re: Competence, Training and awareness - ISO 9001 clause No.6.2.2

there was a case sometime back.

ISO 9001 6.2.2 a) says "determine the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements". Now the question is who will determine? Concerned person from Human Resources department? or the employees himself? or reporting authority of particular employee?

In my opinion, HR has nothing to do with determining people's competence (except for their own staff). It's not their job. Another point is - competence needs to be determined and evaluated only for the "personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements" and only by the one who:
- actually hired or created the requirement for hiring the personnel
- understands the job being done or role being played
- has set some performance measurement criteria to measure the competence against and the one who
- monitors the performance of the personnel under evaluation

HR department has certain different jobs to do. Examples are - pre & post recruitment activities, creating and maintaining employee database, coordinating for induction/awareness or need based trainings, maintaining training records and analysing the training feedback etc. In addition, they also help the process owners/ employees during the performance appraisal process, counsel employees on various matters and cater to their career advancement needs and the likes.

clause e) says "maintain appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience". Problem was - HR department implemented online manpower request system where education, basic skills, experience was showing, but was not very proper. HR argued, they cannot maintain such matrix because standard asking continual improvement and according the market growth, the required skills will grow for each and every requirement. Then it should be filled by concerned reporting authority every time. Is it correct? Is this sufficient to fulfill this clause?

If HR maintains all the records pertaining to employees training, skill, education, experience etc,; I wonder why they can't keep the skill matrix updated no matter how fast the required skills may grow in size or number.