What bad grammar in posts annoys you most?

B

Benjamin28

#71
:lol: Sounds like the grammar was correct without editing is to are, however, it does come out sounding unusual. I would have gone with "Gerty Hawk Chocolates has arrived!"....or would it be "have" lol. English language is so willy nilly at times, it must be tough to learn as a second language with all these odd rules.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#72
:lol: Sounds like the grammar was correct without editing is to are, however, it does come out sounding unusual. I would have gone with "Gerty Hawk Chocolates has arrived!"....or would it be "have" lol. English language is so willy nilly at times, it must be tough to learn as a second language with all these odd rules.
Let me explain why something was wrong with the construction. It's subject/verb agreement that we're talking about, so first we have to determine the subject of the sentence. Here's the sentence as Scott originally gave it to us: "Gertude [sic] Hawk Chocolates is Here!"
The first question is, is the subject "Gertrude Hawk Chocolates" or just "Chocolates"? We might be able to use capitalization as a hint (i.e., the capitilization of "Chocolates" might mean that it's part of the company name), but because the word "Here" is also capitalized, that idea is out the window.

Nonetheless, let's assume that the subject is 'Gertrude Hawks Chocolates." If that's the case, "is" would be correct. The problem is that if the sentence is correct as cast, we should be able to assume either that the company itself is present, or that a representative of the company is present. Remember--we're saying that the subject of the sentence, with which the verb must agree, is the company name, and not its products or catalogs. If neither of those things are true, then the sentence is grammatically correct, but factually incorrect.

Because we now know that (A) the company itself wasn't present; (B) a company representative wasn't present (or at least wasn't being referred to) and (C) the chocolates weren't present either, the subject of the sentence is wrong. The meaning someone intended to convey is that catalogs were present. In other words, the person who made the sign didn't provide the necessary information. It doesn't matter that everyone knew what was meant; we're talking about the rules of grammar here, and in some contexts this might be pedantic overkill, but I think that signs hung in schools should be grammatically--and factually--correct.

So the person who corrected the sign made the wrong correction. The sign should have been changed to read "Gertrude Hawks Chocolates catalogs are here!" The questions of (A) what's actually present and (B) subject/verb agreement are thus eliminated.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#73
All of this information might have prevented all of the back-and-forth. Nonetheless, it still would have been a lot easier for the poster to say "The Gertrude Hawks catalogs are here!" because neither Gertie nor her chocolates were present, apparently. As the sentence was originally cast, it was questionable at best (else we wouldn't be having this conversation).
And it's not even good chocolate.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#75
Re: Why do we have bad grammar ?

I was thinking that Chinese is the most difficult language but now feel that English also may be a difficult one :bonk:
:lmao::lol:

I like that one, Ajit. The discussion we are having on subject/ verb agreement was quite common when I was in High School. Saying, it was not always clear which is the proper choice. As Jim (and randy earlier) suggested, many times it is better to construct the sentence in a different way. If one has that much trouble working on the agreement, it probably was going to be an unclear sentence anyway.

I lament that passion for proper English is quickly becoming a lost art. My kids are doing pretty good on this one. However, I think it has more to do with their listening/ reading comprehension and retention, and less to do with understanding the rules.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#78
Scott,

:topic: The best chocolate is made by:
  1. The Belgians
  2. The Dutch
There is no equal.

Stijloor.
But the Dutch also make zoute drop (dubbel zout rond is what I tried once in Curacao...once) which cancels out wonderful chocolate.

Are you an afficianado?
 
C

Craig H.

#79
Re: Why do we have bad grammar ?

I lament that passion for proper English is quickly becoming a lost art. My kids are doing pretty good on this one. However, I think it has more to do with their listening/ reading comprehension and retention, and less to do with understanding the rules.
Have you read "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves"? If you enjoy English, and lament the poor use of the language that is all around us, there is a good chance you will like this book.
 
#80
Scott,

:topic: The best chocolate is made by:
  1. The Belgians
  2. The Dutch
There is no equal.

Stijloor.
Not true, IMHO. I've tasted both Dutch and Belgian chocolate (while living there) and there is a small English chocolatier who makes delicious goodies, the equal of those European delights.......
 
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