What certification is required of whom? Multiple Locations and Testing Laboratory

J

jawatts - 2009

I imagine there is an existing thread dealing with this issue, but I couldnt locate it.The company I work for has two manufacturing locations, A and B. Location B is the corporate site and also the location of the corporate testing lab which is used by both locations. All maufacturing in location B is heavy truck with no customers requirng TS certification. Location A, on the other hand manufactures for most tier 1 automotive manufacturers and is required by their customers to be TS certified. Location A uses the corporate testing lab in location B.
My question is....
Is location B, the non-automotive manufacturing site, required to be TS certified due to the testing lab and/or the corporate site being located there? Im confused. Like I mentioned, location B is all large truck and has no customers requiring TS certification. Both locations are currently QS certified.
Thanks in advance for any information.
 

Al Rosen

Leader
Super Moderator
I'm not an expert on TS, but most other standards would allow you to view and contol your test lab as a supplier.
 
K

Kevin H

You could approach testing lab certification in one of 2 ways to meet TS requirements:
1. Consider it to be an external supplier, and have it certified to ISO Guide 17025 by an acceptable accreditation body such as LAB, A2LA, NAVLAP, etc. Then by using an ISO Guide 17025 certified lab you meet the requirements of TS.

2. Include it within the scope of registration of location A's TS certification. The fact that it is not at location A doesn't matter. You'll have to pay an extra fee to have the site reviewed as far as your TS quality system is concerned, but it may or may not be less expensive than ISO Guide 17025 registration.
For example, our design location is Sweden, our manufacturing plant is in Western PA. The design location, which is currently ISO 9001 & QS 9000 had to be audited to the TS requirements during their last surveillance so we could keep our TS certificate.

Hope the opinions help.

IMO, I'd choose the ISO Guide 17025 route. I ran a testing lab in a steel mill and felt that our A2LA certification and the reviews required to gain it actually made our lab a little better than we would have been without having sought and gained them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
V

vanputten

Check the IAOB

Hello Jawatts:

Check the IAOB website for Rules 2nd Edition FAQ's. Item #7 may relate to your question. The FAQ's were hard for me to understand but they might help you in understanding what your choices are for the lab at location B. Also, surf the website to see if there is other information pertaining to your question.

http://www.iaob.org/sanctioned.html

Regards, Dirk
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Trusted Information Resource
Kevin H said:
...certified to ISO Guide 17025 by an acceptable accreditation body such as LAB, A2LA, NAVLAP, etc.

Side notes here.....in North America, the recognized accrediting bodies are: IAS, NVLAP, A2LA, L-A-B, ACLASS, SCC (Canada), and EMA (Mexico).

ANSI/ISO/IEC 17025 is not a guide, it is a standard that a laboratory can be accredited to.

Hershal
 
M

Matt Swartwood

Are both A & B under the same certification umbrella? If so, you can state procedurally (in lab and certification scope) that the testing is performed at a different facility. However, if you do this, you will be required to audit (internal audit) and 3rd party audit the lab in facility B.

We do some testing inside and because our lab scope is very specific about the methods of testing, procedures, contingency plans, measurements devices, etc, the auditors had no problem with our system and our lab is not required to be 17025 certified.

Hope this helps.
 
R

rjkozak

TS rules 2.3 remote location

The support site will have to be audited for the lab & any other support functions, per the TS rules. See TS rules 2.3 remote support locations. The headcount for that support location should only be for those that support your mfg site. It keeps the cost of certification lower. Talk to your registar about this point because headcount drives cost / audit days. TS rules are tricky in this regard.

You should check with your customer in case they would require ISO 17025, as some commodities are required by OEM customers to have internal labs accredited to ISO17025. ( not common, but i have seen this required for some material suppliers).

Also it will be less costly than lab accreditation thru A2la or other . Your labs will be covered under your TS lab scope, and the remote location will have to have support functions audited for TS prior to the mfg. site , per TS rules.

Both your sites will have a lab scope that covers test & cal capabilities, see definition of lab scope in TS definitions. And external cal & test labs will need to meet external lab requirements for TS.
 
M

Matt Swartwood

^^^^Exactly^^^^^

Your first plan of action should be to review the end user's supplier requirements and speak with your SDM (supplier quality rep). You should ensure there are no customer specific requirements that would tie you down. If there is nothing in writing, it wouldn't hurt to request approval from the customer.
 
K

Kevin H

Hershal, you're absolutely correct on ISO 17025. Most of my active experience with it was with its predecessor - ISO Guide 25, (we were just beginning to upgrade to 17025 from guide 25 when I changed employers) and I inadvertently add guide whenever I think of it - just 1 of those little mental hickups :eek: Hopefully I'll eliminate guide from any future references I make to ISO 17025.
 
Top Bottom