What companies think climate change will have a material impact on their business?

Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#32
Fair enough all around...this started with me asking if anyone else had data easily at hand one way or the other. It seems not, so I'll go find it myself.

Food for thought:
A refutation of an assertion without data is, in itself, its own assertion without data.
A dismissal of an assertion without data (re Hitchens's Razor) is different than a refutation.

"Where's the data to support that?" is a dismissal...a bit different than "asinine", "nonsensical" or mocking which are in themselves counter-assertions without data.

But we're way off track of climate change now, so I'll go look for data on my own.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#34
Interesting numbers here... which disagree with what Sidney posts above...looks more like 15-20 year payback...but that's in dollars, not energy so it's not directly pertinent.

Still plenty of digging to do...

Wind Turbine Cost: Worth The Million-Dollar Price In 2020?

FWIW: this link was provided by the original claimant...and it proves him wrong on the dollar front at least. Nice when the data provided to support an assertion contradicts the assertion...makes life easier.
 
Last edited:

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#35
looks more like 15-20 year payback...but that's in dollars,
Where does it say that? I could not find it in the link you provided. I have seen that claim elsewhere, but, once again, I seriously doubt it, as most investors would not put their money in a project that has a life cycle of 20-25 years and only see a break even point in the 15th year, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that the price of energy fluctuates and long term pricing is hugely uncertain.

Yes, I am aware of subsidies playing a part in the equation, but the largest (by far) producer of wind energy in the World is China and I seriously doubt the CCP would be providing subsidies to wind farmers over there.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#36
Where does it say that?
I did the math ....
$1.3MM per MW x 2.5 MW = $ 3.25MM (first sub-bullet in bold)
Yearly revenue at 50% capacity ($219000 from table) less yearly maintenance cost ($42000 from text above table) = $ 177000

3.25MM / 177,000 = ~18.4 years

But again...I'm keyed on Energy in vs. energy out...far too easy to play games with dollars...and it seems like current turbines are net energy gain over lifetime, now it's just figuring out how far net positive...and I doubt we'll get concrete numbers there.

...and I read your comment on CCP to assume private wind farmers (ie. subsidies), I wouldn't assume privatization there...
 
Last edited:

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#37
3.25MM / 177,000 = ~18.4 years
Thanks. But, there are so many variables (capacity factor, wind speed, size of installation, pricing of kwh, location, etc...)involved with ROI of a wind turbine and a wind farm that such simplistic quantification does not seem appropriate. As wind power grows, CAPEX investments also should come down and, as the decarbonization push of the energy matrix trend grows, pricing of renewables-sourced electricity is likely to rise significantly.

There are many articles out there that make the return on the investment of wind energy much more attractive than a 18-year return break even point.

Return on investment from wind turbines - Renewables First

.I'm keyed on Energy in vs. energy out.
Carbon and Energy payback of a wind turbine — SaskWind
 

Ed Panek

QA RA Small Med Dev Company
Leader
Super Moderator
#38
"Food for thought:
A refutation of an assertion without data is, in itself, its own assertion without data. "

You mean an opposite claim. Not being persuaded by evidence for a claim is not a claim.

There is the positive claim and the negative claim but there is also the agnostic default position of being "without knowledge"

For example, if I state you have Covid-19 as I saw you cough. That's a claim with weak evidence. To State "No, I Do not have Covid" is also a claim. But to reject the assertion you have Covid as 'I don't see evidence I have covid" is not a claim. You are not rejecting the possibility the claim is true but you are acting as if you don't until you are convinced. If you did not act in this manner we would go insane; you would be testing yourself daily for covid and running to the ER for any sneezes or coughs.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
K Exclusion of 8.3 Design and Development for Design Companies ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
B ISO 9001:2015 Registered Companies ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
T Combining 2 companies with separate AS9100D certificates! AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
A Supplier File info for large (Microsoft) companies. Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 2
malasuerte Performance of ISO 9001 certified vs. non-certified manufacturing companies ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
J Merging two AS9100 Companies: how to manage interim period AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
D QMS Realignment after business splits into 2 different companies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
H Does anyone has feedback on a notified body for small companies? EU Medical Device Regulations 3
F Logistic/shipping companies as external providers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
Ed Panek Does this FDA Requirement Apply to international (not USA) distributors for USA based manufacturing companies? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 0
C In-process inspection - Tooling and assembly lines for automotive companies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
V Sister companies selling same medical device under different names ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
D Big companies suffer from quality management system? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
M Who are the go to companies for non-destructive hardness testing? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
R Customer Satisfaction importance in companies with Government/Public Administration as main customer? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
K Submission of MDR File - Partner Companies - Computed Tomography (CT) CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 10
Stoic Are any medical device companies using the 2011 FDA process validation guidance instead of GHTF/SG3/N99-10:2004? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
M ISO 13485 extended Site (Two companies) ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
D 3 Companies - Medical device parts and substances - Responsibilities EU Medical Device Regulations 4
F ISO Certified companies - Is there a list of certified companies that I can access ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
S Managing specification changes on standard parts purchased through trading companies Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
Q How is Medical Device Number (MDL) assigned to companies? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 0
Nicole Desouza Are Shipping Companies Suppliers? Manufacturing and Related Processes 4
S Companies that maintain your machine should be in ASL? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
D Are medical device companies required to document every change made to their website? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
D Why are pharma companies automating QMS systems? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 2
M ISO 27001 ISMS scope for companies with subsidiaries IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 0
M Informational From RAPS: Danish Regulators Seek to Help Smaller Companies With EU MDR Compliance Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
R ISO 9001 versus ISO 13485 for Suppliers to Medical Device Companies ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
R Qualification of Distributors such as McMaster-Carr and Digikey to Medical Device Companies ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
N MDSAP Participants 2019 - How many companies are participating YTD? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 20
T Why do most companies have Quality reporting to Engineering or Operations and not to CEO? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 45
T Series A ready company - Term for medical devices companies? Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 2
R How to keep track of all FDA rules and regulations for medical device companies 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
D Design Transfer between two companies with different QMS CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 3
T QMS/MDD scope - Two companies located in different places work together Human Factors and Ergonomics in Engineering 10
J What my companies RoHS declaration should say 2011/65/EU, 2015/863, or 2017/2102 REACH and RoHS Conversations 3
K Outsourced Major Processes - Working for Two Sister Companies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
Y FDA PreCert Program for Software (Companies) - 2017 Other US Medical Device Regulations 1
A ISO 9001:2015 Implementation for Marketing and Sales Companies ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
J Recommendation for US Agent Services for Medical Device Companies EU Medical Device Regulations 6
T Register of TS 16949 Certified Companies IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
H How Calibration Precision checks are implemented in medical device companies General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
M Using a Complaint Management Software (Medical Device companies) 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
T Transfer of AS9110 Certification between Companies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
I FDA Medical Device Registration - Scenario - Two Companies 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4
P Where to start to helping other companies to get ISO IEC 27000? Consultants and Consulting 1
S Elisa kits for poultry disease check up companies US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 3
E Should companies that perform calibration services be ISO 17025 accredited? ISO 17025 related Discussions 13
E CAPA Management Software Tool Recommendations for Small Companies Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom