What direction do you provide your internal auditors on OFIs?

[Ed Panek]

I wrote an internal OFI for a production issue. They had their calibrations scheduled for the end of the year which is our busy time for deliveries and sales. Some people complained that production was harder when items were in calibration and management was pushing production harder. I suggested moving the calibration to the summer when people were on vacation and the production demands were less or purchase more tools. They had not made any mistakes but I could tell it could happen if this kept up.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Not necessarily; this softgrading practice can simply be an attempt to avoid confrontation with the auditees. Reporting an OFI does not have the same perceived severity as a nonconformity, in most cases. The same phenomenon occurs in the world of 3ʳᵈ party auditing. As an example, the discussion we had @ Aerospace auditors are told to stop soft grading NC's. Or else!

I agree. In my experience though, some auditors just aren't sure and decide to err on the side of "opportunity." There's also the problem that some people just lack the discernment skills needed to make the right call and can't be trained out of it.

 

[John Broomfield]

Internal auditors are employees too, while they are not auditing they may suggest improvements like any other employee. But making the internal auditors responsible for suggesting improvements may cause employees to think it is not their job.

And it could distract the internal auditors from seeking evidence of effectiveness and reporting well-crafted nonconformity statements. I’d rather they did not suggest improvements while auditing because suggesting improvements is not auditing.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Internal auditors are employees too, while they are not auditing they may suggest improvements like any other employee. But making the internal auditors responsible for suggesting improvements may cause employees to think it is not their job.

So an internal auditor, during an audit, sees an opportunity for improvement but says nothing about it in her report, but the next day makes the suggestion. What's the difference? If it's made clear to everyone in the company that it is their job and fear of reporting has been removed, why would anyone think it wasn't their job, regardless of what an auditor sees or doesn't see?

And it could distract the internal auditors from seeking evidence of effectiveness and reporting well-crafted nonconformity statements. I’d rather they did not suggest improvements while auditing because suggesting improvements is not auditing.

Writing "well-crafted nonconformity statements" isn't auditing either, for that matter. Auditing consists of observation and reporting what's been observed.

 

[John Broomfield]

Of course auditors also report the positive facts from the audit that help fulfill to the audit objective.

And on seeing a possible improvement opportunity the employee can report it immediately after the closing meeting.

Suggestions are not needed as part of the audit unless specifically requested by the audit objective.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Of course auditors also report the positive facts from the audit that help fulfill to the audit objective.

And on seeing a possible improvement opportunity the employee can report it immediately after the closing meeting.

Suggestions are not needed as part of the audit unless specifically requested by the audit objective.

Simply repeating your point without addressing the points I made doesn't answer anything.

 

[John Broomfield]

Let’s try them one at a time:

The audit client specifies the audit objective and may not be willing to pay for the auditor to make suggestions.

 

[Mike S.]

How many companies don't want their internal auditors to make improvement suggestions they may come across during an audit?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Let’s try them one at a time:

The audit client specifies the audit objective and may not be willing to pay for the auditor to make suggestions.

In an internal audit, who is the "client"? Why would anyone have to be paid?

 

[John Broomfield]

How many companies don't want their internal auditors to make improvement suggestions they may come across during an audit?

The fact that ISO 9001 has not made auditor suggestions mandatory says not enough for this desire to become a requirement.

Generally though, auditee managers like to ask for recommendations because it stops the auditor from auditing.