What do you do when an auditee says "No thank you"

#21
Jennifer,

Three options:

  • Say, "I see you are too busy for me" and obtain the evidence you seek from another person;
  • Audit document control as an integrated part of auditing all of the other processes until you reach a conclusion; or
  • If true, say "you providing me with evidence of control is essential to fulfill the audit objective and your not providing me with this evidence will require me to stop the audit and report the reasons to the audit client";
Nothing really requires auditee's to provide time to the auditor. For the auditee to invest their time they need to share an interest in the audit objective.

John
John, your comments have the words of ISO 19011 rattling around in my head. This is an area where the practices laid out in that document are far too externally oriented. No-one in internal audit programs relates to terminology like "audit clients" etc. In most cases, audits are done by the audit manager who is very often the only person who gives a fig!

This situation has passed. I believe in the issue being process related, not people. Our considerations should take a look at the process, as practiced, and ask 'what could be done to prevent this'?
 
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John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#22
John, your comments have the words of ISO 19011 rattling around in my head. This is an area where the practices laid out in that document are far too externally oriented. No-one in internal audit programs relates to terminology like "audit clients" etc. In most cases, audits are done by the audit manager who is very often the only person who gives a fig!

This situation has passed. I believe in the issue being process related, not people. Our considerations should take a look at the process, as practiced, and ask 'what could be done to prevent this'?
Andy,

Agreed, Option C is unlikely to be taken. I was more concerned about the auditor's expectation that the auditee must respect the audit.

I tried to clarify this with my closing point:

"For the auditee to invest their time they need to share an interest in the audit objective."

John
 
#23
Andy,

Agreed, Option C is unlikely to be taken. I was more concerned about the auditor's expectation that the auditee must respect the audit.

I tried to clarify this with my closing point:

"For the auditee to invest their time they need to share an interest in the audit objective."

John
Excellent point! It begs the question, in my mind, how does an auditee gain interest in an audit objective? Particularly an internal audit...:popcorn:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#24
Excellent point! It begs the question, in my mind, how does an auditee gain interest in an audit objective? Particularly an internal audit...:popcorn:
To me one way for the auditee to get interested is to understand that the audit isn't being done for free and for his organization to impress that small tid bit upon folks
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#25
Excellent point! It begs the question, in my mind, how does an auditee gain interest in an audit objective? Particularly an internal audit...:popcorn:
Andy,

The managers may be interested in how effectively their management system is enabling the organization to fulfill customer requirements.

...or they may be interested in the effectiveness of the planning, purchasing or recruiting processes.

I doubt they would be interested in conformity to the standard.

John
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#26
"No thank you, we talked about enough already - you asked me all you are supposed to ask me yesterday; more, in fact."
"Thank you for the time you've spent with me already - it sounds like you're really busy. Since I'm auditing the process, and not you personally, I'll continue the audit with the document users and others involved in their control. We can verify that the users needs are being met, and that the process is truly effective. By the way, who is your backup when you're not here to handle document-related issues? That would be a good person to start with..."
 
#27
"Thank you for the time you've spent with me already - it sounds like you're really busy. Since I'm auditing the process, and not you personally, I'll continue the audit with the document users and others involved in their control. We can verify that the users needs are being met, and that the process is truly effective. By the way, who is your backup when you're not here to handle document-related issues? That would be a good person to start with..."
Better have your resume up to date and an offer if an internal auditor uses such tactics...
 
#29
Are you reading something into this that I'm not seeing?
Steve: I think the person Jennifer encountered wasn't a peer, but someone higher up in management. Since they are already unsupportive, it could become highly controversial/risky to say such things - as an internal auditor - to such a person, particularly the aspect of the 'back up'...it could be perceived as 'rubbing salt..."

Just my honest opinion...
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#30
My perception was that the person felt they had "wasted enough time" on the audit and wanted to move on to something they considered more important. The dialog I wrote gives the person an "out", but also says that the audit is important enough to be finished anyway. A busy member of management shouldn't mind if I go talk to someone else to meet the audit objectives.

If there is fear I'd be fired for trying to complete an audit in my organization, I should probably already have my resume polished and the new job feelers out. Granted, I wasn't there and couldn't see/feel any underlying motives that weren't stated. I think only Jennifer could make that call.
 
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