What if none of the customers want APQP and PPAP

[sarang]

We spoke to many of our customer and most of them did not care whether we had QS or not, whether we did APQP, PPAP, etc. or not, neither are any of our customers demanding it. At this point of time, we are working towards getting QS certification. I have my first FMEA out and am working on APQP. If the customers do not need that, do I still have to worry about getting it in place? Experienced people please advice!!!

 

[Roger Eastin]

Who are your customers? B3? other non-B3 automotive customers? are you tier 1 or 2? I would be really puzzled if one of the B3 did not care if you did QS!!! There have been breaches in the wall before, but this would be a lulu!!

 

[sarang]

No, B3 are not our customers. We make truck bodies on chassis supplied by GMC, freightliner, etc. but do not directly supply to any of the B3, so dont be surprised. We are a custom body producing company!!

 

[Marc]

If you register to QS you have to have systems in place for APQP and PPAP and you have to have at least 1 PPAP package as evidence that your systems can function.

 

[sarang]

thanks marc!!

 

[Sam]

If QS is not required,why pursue it?
I would suggest a process implementing TQM & TPM patterned after the Toyota Production System.
You will achieve better results, get more positive management feedback and QS will be easier to implement in the future.

 

[Roger Eastin]

I also think you are better off implementing a TQM program than doing QS. Implementing ISO9000 might be a good base and then implementing a good TQM program. Of course, this assumes that you have good management backing.

 

[sarang]

We already have ISO9001 and plan to supply to B3 in the future, but do not do it currently and probably thats one of the many reasons we need QS9K.

 

[Lanzer]

Hi,
I am from a semiconductor manufacturing plant.
We just had our TS16949 audit in year 2011 and were certified.

One point I am confused is as follows :

We were told by our consultant during the TS preparation that if the customer replies officially that they do not need us to submit APQP or PPAP, then it is not necessary to do it.

But during the audit by another audit firm, they requested us to do APQP and PPAP even though the customer does not require it.

That includes the product that we are currently selling to customer based on the official reply that they do not need it.

Will we be penalised if we still insist that as long as customer has replied to us officially that they do not need the APQP or PPAP, we do not prepare for the product's APQP and PPAP?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Hi,
I am from a semiconductor manufacturing plant.
We just had our TS16949 audit in year 2011 and were certified.

One point I am confused is as follows :

We were told by our consultant during the TS preparation that if the customer replies officially that they do not need us to submit APQP or PPAP, then it is not necessary to do it.

But during the audit by another audit firm, they requested us to do APQP and PPAP even though the customer does not require it.

That includes the product that we are currently selling to customer based on the official reply that they do not need it.

Will we be penalised if we still insist that as long as customer has replied to us officially that they do not need the APQP or PPAP, we do not prepare for the product's APQP and PPAP?

Welcome to the Cove.

There's a difference between APQP and PPAP in this context. PPAP is generally considered the end output of the APQP process, but if a customer doesn't require AIAG-style PPAP, you're not obliged to do it. The auditor is wrong in this regard.

Two things:

• If your customer has a specific part approval process, that's what you have to use--it's the functional equivalent of PPAP.
• For a company that's 16949 registered, one of the basic expectations is that the APQP process will be adopted for all automotive products, regardless of whether or not a specific (or any) customer requires it. It's considered a part of doing business in the automotive world.