What if none of the customers want APQP and PPAP

S

sarang

#1
We spoke to many of our customer and most of them did not care whether we had QS or not, whether we did APQP, PPAP, etc. or not, neither are any of our customers demanding it. At this point of time, we are working towards getting QS certification. I have my first FMEA out and am working on APQP. If the customers do not need that, do I still have to worry about getting it in place? Experienced people please advice!!!
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
R

Roger Eastin

#2
Who are your customers? B3? other non-B3 automotive customers? are you tier 1 or 2? I would be really puzzled if one of the B3 did not care if you did QS!!! There have been breaches in the wall before, but this would be a lulu!!
 
S

sarang

#3
No, B3 are not our customers. We make truck bodies on chassis supplied by GMC, freightliner, etc. but do not directly supply to any of the B3, so dont be surprised. We are a custom body producing company!!
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#4
If you register to QS you have to have systems in place for APQP and PPAP and you have to have at least 1 PPAP package as evidence that your systems can function.
 
#6
If QS is not required,why pursue it?
I would suggest a process implementing TQM & TPM patterned after the Toyota Production System.
You will achieve better results, get more positive management feedback and QS will be easier to implement in the future.
 
R

Roger Eastin

#7
I also think you are better off implementing a TQM program than doing QS. Implementing ISO9000 might be a good base and then implementing a good TQM program. Of course, this assumes that you have good management backing.
 
S

sarang

#8
We already have ISO9001 and plan to supply to B3 in the future, but do not do it currently and probably thats one of the many reasons we need QS9K.
 
L

Lanzer

#9
Hi,
I am from a semiconductor manufacturing plant.
We just had our TS16949 audit in year 2011 and were certified.

One point I am confused is as follows :

We were told by our consultant during the TS preparation that if the customer replies officially that they do not need us to submit APQP or PPAP, then it is not necessary to do it.

But during the audit by another audit firm, they requested us to do APQP and PPAP even though the customer does not require it.

That includes the product that we are currently selling to customer based on the official reply that they do not need it.

Will we be penalised if we still insist that as long as customer has replied to us officially that they do not need the APQP or PPAP, we do not prepare for the product's APQP and PPAP?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
Hi,
I am from a semiconductor manufacturing plant.
We just had our TS16949 audit in year 2011 and were certified.

One point I am confused is as follows :

We were told by our consultant during the TS preparation that if the customer replies officially that they do not need us to submit APQP or PPAP, then it is not necessary to do it.

But during the audit by another audit firm, they requested us to do APQP and PPAP even though the customer does not require it.

That includes the product that we are currently selling to customer based on the official reply that they do not need it.

Will we be penalised if we still insist that as long as customer has replied to us officially that they do not need the APQP or PPAP, we do not prepare for the product's APQP and PPAP?
Welcome to the Cove. :D

There's a difference between APQP and PPAP in this context. PPAP is generally considered the end output of the APQP process, but if a customer doesn't require AIAG-style PPAP, you're not obliged to do it. The auditor is wrong in this regard.

Two things:
  • If your customer has a specific part approval process, that's what you have to use--it's the functional equivalent of PPAP.
  • For a company that's 16949 registered, one of the basic expectations is that the APQP process will be adopted for all automotive products, regardless of whether or not a specific (or any) customer requires it. It's considered a part of doing business in the automotive world.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
somashekar Boeing 767 lands on belly in Poland - None hurt Travel - Hotels, Motels, Planes and Trains 3
B Work Instructions: Are they all or none? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
G ANSI & ASME regardless of Maximum Material Condition when none is specified Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 3
J Documented Receiving Procedure where there was none Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
P Quality manual none standard Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 1
D Fractional factorials for more than two levels, none continuous response Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 9
L Core Tools - PFMEA - Not having the word ''NONE'' in Recommended Actions FMEA and Control Plans 10
M Customers Request AS9100 certification - Small Company (less than 20 employees) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
J Which OEM or customers are now requiring the new AIAG/VDA FMEA format? FMEA and Control Plans 0
M Scope of Combined ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 QMS - Non-automotive customers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
D Do non-IATF customers need to be included in audit scope? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 23
NDesouza When Customers Make Changes to Orders Contract Review Process 24
T Was Just told we could ONLY buy material for AS9100 customers if the DISTRIBUTION house is AS9100 / AS9120 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
D Customer and Company Specific Requirements for notification of Customers of a change in Management or Key Personnel Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3
S Returned product due to Customers fault, is it a Non-Conformance? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
Sidney Vianna Interesting Discussion ISO 9001 audits from the perspective of registrants' customers - an interesting paper Registrars and Notified Bodies 0
S How to collect complaint data from customers Customer Complaints 24
A CE Mark PPE Category III for our customers residing in the EU CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 1
Ed Panek Requirement to track and trend positive feedback from customers ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 12
R Medical Device (IVD) - Selling RUO to Customers EU Medical Device Regulations 2
T Restricting scope of AS9100 certification to a couple of customers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
C What are rules to notify customers if IATF cert is put on hold? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
R Concessions - ISO 13485:2016 requires concession approval from customers Nonconformance and Corrective Action 2
G AIAG FMEA - Major customers of the FMEA process FMEA and Control Plans 3
C Record retention for defunct customers? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
M Can a foreign manufacturer sell directly to US customers? Other US Medical Device Regulations 4
D AS9100D 7.3 Awareness of customers quality policies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 18
A Special Procedures for Non Aerospace Customers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
R AS9100 FAI - First Article Inspection to a prior Customers PO AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
B TS16949 Section 8.2.2.3 Product Audit - Requirements for various Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
Crimpshrine13 IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
N Do you make exceptions to your process for customers? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
D TS16949 requirements for for Directed Buy Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M Document Control Management - External documents flowed down from customers Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
K ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5.3 - Property belonging to customers or external providers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M Does AS9120 (aerospace first article inspection) apply to all customers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
D Dual Lot Manufacturing requirements for Clinical Customers Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
A SIPOC (Suppliers Inputs Process Outputs Customers) examples wanted Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 1
J Potential Customers Asking for EIRs / 483s when evaluating a CRO for future work US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 2
N Survey to Customers Regarding Our Complaint Response Time Customer Complaints 7
B Creation of CAD solid models using customers supplied drawings AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
S CS2 (Controlled Shipping Level) by GM - CB notified. What about other customers? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
E How do you monitor Medical Device Off-Label use by Customers & Medical Professionals EU Medical Device Regulations 5
C Notification to Customers regarding Major Audit Finding IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 25
C Clause 7.2 with no customers (yet) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
T IMDS - MDS request for parts supplied to multiple customers RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 15
T Are Customers required to follow a Manufacturers Maintenance Schedule? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
L PPAP Approval Woes - Getting signed PSW's back from Customers Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 15
R LinkedIn Customers Allege Company Hacked E-Mail Addresses After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 0
S Can we be both TS16949 for Automotive Customers and ISO 9001 for other Customers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8

Similar threads

Top Bottom