What if the inspector isn't inspecting? NASA inspector indicted

#11
JSW05 said:
I personally think it's too much to expect that you can continually put people on top of huge incendiary devices and shoot them into space without expecting that you're going to kill someone sooner or later.
I fully agree. Space travel is a very dangerous business.
JSW05 said:
We'll never know what the inspectors are doing (or not doing) until they don't do it and something bad happens. That's because intensive inspection is built into the design, and into job descriptions and also because inspection snafus are a convenient scapegoat for the bureaucrats when something explodes.
Except that it didn't... ...this time. These events seems to have taken place after the Challenger accident.

/Claes
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#12
Claes Gefvenberg said:
I hese events seems to have taken place after the Challenger accident. /Claes

They were "explosions" nonetheless. It's just a matter of scale. There's a good possibility that the inspector in question was assigned to do 87 inspections but was given time to do 50. Or 20. I once worked for a guy who was a big MBO fan, but kept piling on the objectives long after it would have been necessary to create a serious rift in the space-time continuum in order to complete them. When I warned that some of them weren't going to get done, he sent me to a time management class.
 
#13
JSW05 said:
They were "explosions" nonetheless. It's just a matter of scale. There's a good possibility that the inspector in question was assigned to do 87 inspections but was given time to do 50. Or 20.
Agreed. There must be a reason for skipping the inspections, and that may very well be it. Too bad we don't know more.
JSW05 said:
When I warned that some of them weren't going to get done, he sent me to a time management class.
Ouch! :lol: Creative.... I bet that helped a lot. I've been there, and I suspect that many other Covers have as well. It's not exactly uncommon, and the response (or variations thereof) is definitely very common: You tell your boss you have a hard time keeping up with assignments only to learn that it's your fault :rolleyes:. Yes... Been there...

My standard response is: -Ok, I can do that. What other assignment would you like me to ditch?

/Claes
 
C

cruiser0407

#14
Jennifer Kirley said:
Human nature...snort! :blowup:

The U.S. Navy has not lost any submarines from repair problems since the USS Thresher in 1963, whereupon the quality program was completely reworked to include the proper checks and balances.

I've been reading some of the findings that came out about the Columbia Accident and found it very interesting what has been found about NASA's Quality. It seems that it was recommended that NASA look into the Navy Submarine Quality System. Now will NASA do it? Only time will tell. Some of the reports shows the NASA's Quality System strengths and weaknesses. It is amazing what weaknesses in their system was found. All the info I have read has been found in the NASA websites. I am getting the picture that this inspector may be the scape goat to cover up the weaknesses found in their system. It was also recommended that NASA look into the DCMA Quality System and possibly implimenting the way they operate. I've worked with DCAS Quality Assurance Representatives in the past and it seems that they have a very strong Quality System. Having a DCAS Representative looking over your shoulder while you work made me assure that things were right. I'm still researching and hopefully will have more on this.
 
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N

nodakbil

#15
Perhaps we should shed more light on the Columbia "accident". I don't know how many are aware of what really happened, but... The external fuel tank is covered with an insulation similar to styrofoam. It has always been known that this insulation breaks up during liftoff and produced what NASA refered to as "popcorning"-small bits which would hit the underside of the wings of the shuttle and could be seen in all other shuttle liftoff videos. In the case of Columbia, there is an area right up by the nose of the shuttle where it is connected to the external tank called the bipod. This is the area that the "chunk" about the size of a dinner plate broke off during liftoff. Although this chunk was virtually stationary at the time it broke off, it was estimated that the shuttle was traveling approximately 350 m.p.h. at the time the debris struck the underside of the wing causing the fatal damage. NASA reviewed the video of the liftoff at the time and all thier experts and engineers agreed that there was only the normal "popcorning" effect during liftoff, as the plate size debris disentigrated when it struck the underside of the wing.

What they failed to understand at the time was the size of the chunk. It has been determined that the cause of this debris was due to a change in the process used to manufacture the insulation. Due to EPA requirements, a certian type of freon used in the original insulation manufacturing process was banned, and the replacement used did not possess the same chemical characteristics.

Was this the fault of NASA inspectors? Most of the shuttle program deals through sub-tier vendors including United Space Alliance (USA), Boeing, Rocketdyne, Lockheed-Martin, etc. with the majority of this work passed on to other sub-tiers. What happened to thier inspectors?

The importance of the "Return to Flight" program currently in progress is one that will be instrumental in our dominance of the "space race" and I hope that any blame is placed properly. Any small company which has a hand in this program is just as responsible as any official at NASA.

Thanks for letting me vent.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#16
It has become very difficult to manage quality of products where suppliers provide materials and parts to specifications. Let's observe the problem with Ford Explorer and those darned tires. Some of the problem was lack of communication when Ford revised inflation standards for tires that had been designed to run stiffer. The manufacturer did not coordinate changes well enough with its supplier. Manufacturing problems were exposed, but not the manufacturer-supplier relationship.

There are lots of ways to fall astray. I once worked for a supplier of aerospace composites components. The specifications were exacting, but oversight was not always the best. Consequently there was a bit of wiggle room while making a product that appeared to conform to specs and did, as far as most could tell--even when processes were not controllable given the equipment being used. Until failure, however, things are good. Until a failure, what went on that didn't get found out? We will probably never know. If we knew, we'd perhaps be a mass of neurotics, afraid to go on a drive or flight!

This dangerous relationship is also evident in the airliners' outsourcing their maintenance. Remember the Alaska Airlines plane that went down from not enough grease on the tail flap screw? A subcontractor problem--out of date or insufficiently observed procedures lost scores of lives and Alaska's reputation tanked then.

It's easy to swing our gaze upon inspectors and suppliers, but the end client--in this discussion's case NASA, Ford, aircraft manufacturers and Alaska Airlines--is in charge of supplier control.

A material or procedural change is certainly not in the inspectors' purview. It is an engineering matter. It is also a management matter, since management deals with aspects non-technical, such as financing, scheduling and permission to wait while running all new tests on behavioral dynamics of this new material.

A person in the know once described to me the Challenger, um, accident in fair detail. As I remember the description the engineering staff, voiced by the head engineer, cautioned against the hydrogen fuel tank's o-ring leakage in chilly weather. Management, this person said, rescheduled after a number of postponements but in the end insisted the launch happen on that fateful day. The management reportedly demanded the head engineer watch and give his support, but he resisted and finally relented and did attend.

Of course the shuttle did launch. We now know the head of management was replaced, procedures and protocols went into overhaul and now they say the shuttle is nearly ready again.

And so the part I am not completely confident about is whether the new material dynamics have been sufficiently vetted. Nor have I read enough to become altogether satisfied that quality processes take programmic precedences--if the inspector is not procedurally able to complete the task, or if the criteria are not satisfactorily met, the thing should not launch and management has the responsibility to ensure that is so.

Discussions about vendor roles and inspection fulfillment do not address the question sufficiently for me; the foam insulation factor remains a planning and mechanical engineering matter. Inspection execution is influenced by process engineering. When I hear that management insists both material and procedural requirements be met before launch, like my command did for our submarines, I will feel so much better.
 
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C

cruiser0407

#17
Indicted

I couldn't do this before and now I can tell you that I am the QAS that was indicted. I will try to answer any questions that I can about this. There are still some issues to take care of and I won't be able to comment on those. I've been reading all the replies posted on this subject. It is good to see that individuals take pride in what they do. I just went through a week of **** sitting in the courtroom. I'm glad that this part is over and can move on to clear up everything else. :D
 
#18
cruiser0407 said:
I couldn't do this before and now I can tell you that I am the QAS that was indicted.
Wow... :eek: Now it's really getting interesting! Btw: I learned about the judge tossing the case out mere minutes ago and went here to find this thread. You beat me to it...

I was wondering why you were so interested in this case. Well, it all stands to reason now, and I do hope you'll be able to tell the entire tale soon.

For now: Good luck :agree:

/Claes
 
C

Craig H.

#19
Claes Gefvenberg said:
Wow... :eek: Now it's really getting interesting! Btw: I learned about the judge tossing the case out mere minutes ago and went here to find this thread. You beat me to it...

I was wondering why you were so interested in this case. Well, it all stands to reason now, and I do hope you'll be able to tell the entire tale soon.

For now: Good luck :agree:

/Claes
Claes, can you provide a link to he story?
 
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