What information do I need to collect when conducting 2nd party audit?

H

Hectorhe

#1
Dears,

I am working as a SQE at China for an European company, the products are buliding hardware, like handles, lock case, hinges, etc.

Last week, the big boss came to China, and talked about the audit, he said," don't audit for audit, you guys need to find out what information useful to us", he then talked about the cost break down, production leadtime.

We are always using the company checlisk for the audit, actually not including such information, so i want to know how can we get such information during audit? could anybody share some experience? thanks.
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Dears,

I am working as a SQE at China for an European company, the products are buliding hardware, like handles, lock case, hinges, etc.

Last week, the big boss came to China, and talked about the audit, he said," don't audit for audit, you guys need to find out what information useful to us", he then talked about the cost break down, production leadtime.

We are always using the company checlisk for the audit, actually not including such information, so i want to know how can we get such information during audit? could anybody share some experience? thanks.
First of all you shall agree the scope and the criteria of the audit with your suppliers.
I do not know if you share with them the Supplier Quality manual , if any in your organization, by means of which you communicate your requirements.
You could also audit vs the contract or purchase order you sign off with them where you specify requirements of your request ( usually related to times, costs and quality).
I do not know if you send in advance a questionnaire to your supplier and have them self assessed with a ranking for specific questions based upon your requirements as well on the standard you audit to.
Then you shall go on their premises with a specifi and agree audit plan. I do not know if you request ISO 9001 certification to your supplier, this could be a good basis to start, but I think you are also interest to product audit in addiction to their quality mgmt system.
This is what I usally saw in my working experience
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#3
Dears,

I am working as a SQE at China for an European company, the products are buliding hardware, like handles, lock case, hinges, etc.

Last week, the big boss came to China, and talked about the audit, he said," don't audit for audit, you guys need to find out what information useful to us", he then talked about the cost break down, production leadtime.

We are always using the company checlisk for the audit, actually not including such information, so i want to know how can we get such information during audit? could anybody share some experience? thanks.
Sure, the big boss is exactly right. Do not audit to audit. Audit to be value added, audit to drive continuous improvement.

Have you looked into using the process approach? (processes with inputs, outputs, activities, objectives and metrics). That would be a good starting point for value added auditing.

What weakness are there in your quality system? What are the records of the management review showing?
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#4
Dears,

I am working as a SQE at China for an European company, the products are buliding hardware, like handles, lock case, hinges, etc.

Last week, the big boss came to China, and talked about the audit, he said," don't audit for audit, you guys need to find out what information useful to us", he then talked about the cost break down, production leadtime.

We are always using the company checlisk for the audit, actually not including such information, so i want to know how can we get such information during audit? could anybody share some experience? thanks.
Great response from qusys and Kales.

Hectorhe, since you mentioned about big boss, does he expect your audit to be also from a business perspective (focusing on delivery, pricing etc) in addition to quality audit ?
 
H

Hectorhe

#5
Hi Ajit, qusys and Kales.
thanks a lot for your reply.

the big boss might expect us work as a spy to get the information that suppliers don't want to show our buyers.

my current audit focus on the quality system and EHS, we have a checklist to audit potential suppliers and follow up audit each year to drive improvements.

because the big boss didn't talk more detail, i want to see if anybody has the similar experience? how a SQE can get the information which is benefited to the business? and that information may relate to cost/price for benchmark with other suppliers.

BTW, i am the SQE in the sourcing office, not the factory.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#6
It would be nice to know the context of your audit. Are your supplier certified to ISO 9001 or one of it's derivatives (AS9100, TS16949, ISO 13485, etc)?

There is nothing in those standards that dictates how to do supplier audits. ISO 19011 contains guidance, not requirements.

In other words, it is up to each company to determine if they will audit suppliers and how they will do it. If your company chooses to do so, they may audit the entire quality management system, although the supplier may be reluctant to share information that applies to other customers.

Your company may also choose to focus on what your supplier does that affects whatever you are buying from them. This is the approach that would seem to be the most useful, at least most of the time.
 
H

Hectorhe

#7
not relate to ethics...

my audits currently focus on EHS, and supplier quality system( mostly refer to ISO9001), but you konw it is not enough. we have so many suppliers for one catogory. what is the difference between the suppliers that have the similar score/level? how can the audit be more value-added to our team? as a sourcing office, we are trying our best to find a lower cost source and without big risk. the boss said don't audit for audit. does anybody who is also at a high level have the same concern? what is the value for the aduitors? how can be more value-added?
 
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