What is the best way to Improve an Internal Auditors Effectiveness?

  • Thread starter Brenda Mundroff
  • Start date
J

Jackie Jolly

#21
I was interested in the Power Point Document listed above but was unable to locate it. How could I go about this?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#22
Contemporary thoughts on Improving Auditor Effectiveness?

Contemporary thoughts on Improving Auditor Effectiveness?

Do any of you 'oldies' have a copy of Don's files from way back when?
 
#23
After a quick read of this thread (thanks for re-igniting it, Marc) I'm tempted to say that the auditors 'not getting it' could have been a result of trying to meet the 'independence' requirements for auditors. I've experienced this situation many times in the 20 or so years of training/coaching (internal) auditors. Often, someone is assigned to an audit who doesn't have any experience of the process, techniques, terminology etc and is totally overwhelmed. Furthermore, if the audit criteria is solely ISO 9001 (now), it is possible that the auditors were unfamiliar with the requirements and how they 'fit' the process being audited.
Just a few thoughts, I'll revisit this thread later.....

Andy
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#24
After a quick read of this thread (thanks for re-igniting it, Marc) I'm tempted to say that the auditors 'not getting it' could have been a result of trying to meet the 'independence' requirements for auditors. I've experienced this situation many times in the 20 or so years of training/coaching (internal) auditors. Often, someone is assigned to an audit who doesn't have any experience of the process, techniques, terminology etc and is totally overwhelmed. Furthermore, if the audit criteria is solely ISO 9001 (now), it is possible that the auditors were unfamiliar with the requirements and how they 'fit' the process being audited.
Just a few thoughts, I'll revisit this thread later.....

Andy
I think you hit a valuable point. So what do you recommend? Do you:
1. Try to recruit technical people and train as auditors?
2. Train the auditors in the process/technical?
3. Have a technical associate with them?

Or, do you run a combination of all three? Which one have you had the most success with?
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#25
I've been doing a "competence" review after each audit. I use the results to plan refresher trainings, additional training audits, or just see where I need to sit down with someone and talk through any problems. I also make sure that I praise any positive results that I see, and doing the competency review gives me some "real" information to bring to the table. We've even gotten some good action items from the review.
 
#26
I think you hit a valuable point. So what do you recommend? Do you:
1. Try to recruit technical people and train as auditors?
2. Train the auditors in the process/technical?
3. Have a technical associate with them?

Or, do you run a combination of all three? Which one have you had the most success with?
Possibly, none of the above.............:mg:
My belief is based on getting a number of issues squared away, first: -

The 'scope' and 'criteria' of each audit, in other words what is going to be audited and against what requirements?
Who is qualified/competent to do that audit?

I don't advocate using auditors who are 'from another department'. In most cases, I'd recommend using someone who has experienced the process they're auditing, as long as they don't audit their own work......This will enable any coaching to focus on the auditor's technique, rather than on their knowledge of the business process.

Now, I know that's difficult sometimes and added to which they may not have been trained. So, to this, I'm going to suggest that the whole thing about internal audits is that they aren't often done to benefit the business, so the audit planning process needs an overhaul.

Not doing a whole 12 month audit calendar of processes or 'ISO' requirements and focusing the audits on customer critical or business critical issues, is more likely to get managements' attention and, therefore, support.

This is, of course, the audit holy grail! So, take some technical people and train them to audit (and then try some of the other things here too!!):yes:

Andy
 

harry

Super Moderator
#27
The favourite response to this topic will be 'Training' but people failed to realize that training is just an imparting of knowledge and they overlook the 'implementation' aspect (putting knowledge into practice).

If one does not have internal resource, instead of engaging a trainer for training/refreshing the audit module, I will advocate engaging a known good auditor to come in to lead the audit (at least in the beginning). His job is not to carry out the audit but to guide, coach, advise and refresh the internal auditors mind as they carry out the audit (practically to impart actual auditing skills to these newbies).

This is somewhat similar to the approach of Steel but using external resources. At the end of the audit, the coach will need to do a review and briefing so that each internal auditor will know their individual strong and weak points and can take the necessary improvement action.

Some trainers will argue that they provide practical audit training in their Training module also but its quite different. First, it normally forms a small percentage of the training hours which is too short to be effective. Next, training sessions are jam-packed, not giving trainees time to digest, understand, take a look at their own operation and ask relevant questions. Finally, the atmosphere and available help in a training session and an actual audit is quite different.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A Best Practice in Printing Industry - New project to improve the printing process Customer and Company Specific Requirements 7
P DFMEA - Machinery Design Best Practices FMEA and Control Plans 0
G Best way to calc uncert for measuring microscope without duplicating repeatability? Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 2
William55401 Distributed By Product - Best Practices for Configuration Management and Purchasing Controls ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 0
P Best european location to set up for a virtual medical device manufacturer? EU Medical Device Regulations 4
optomist1 Best Optical Comparators General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
qualprod Best practice to ensure inputting of data in production Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 19
M Best profilometer for the money General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 22
P Best Global Option to become an OBL/PLM/Virtual medical device brand in 2020 Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 2
earl62 What is the best way to control special characteristics in Control plan? Is it Mandatory to have SPC for IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
J ISO 13485 System 'soft start' - How to best reflect this in initial audits, management review minutes and other records? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
S What is the best method to bond urethane foam to urethane foam? Manufacturing and Related Processes 4
Watchcat Best Regulatory Oversight for Off-Shore Device Manufacturing? Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 1
E Best way to keep up with pharmaceutical quality knowledge and current affairs Service Industry Specific Topics 1
K Best Measurement Systems Demos in California? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
qualprod Best approach to get a real value as average? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 6
CPhelan Best metrics for monitoring low volume (<1000) parts per vendors Supply Chain Security Management Systems 1
DuncanGibbons Best practice for identifying "items" of parts for DFMEA analysis AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
I What kind of wine best complements the Friday that you close out your external audit findings? Opinions are welcome. Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 12
I Non-Conformance vs OFI -- your best descriptions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 61
A What are Practical data center best practices IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 1
G Best Practices for IT auditing - Is a session-id necessary for a complete audit trail? IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 0
S Best software for customer support/complaints? Customer Complaints 0
R Bill of Materials for a complex product - Industry best practice ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
G Oversized Threads - What sized stab pin would be best to quickly check for oversized thread holes General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
D What is the best software used for the pharma compliance management? Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 0
M Informational MHRA launches consultation on how to best engage patients and the public Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
optomist1 Mobility Field Manufacturing Best - Worst Practices Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
qualprod Best criteria to measure Corrective Action effectiveness - Poor Maintenance ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
N Best practices for capturing audit objective evidence in a practical manner? Internal Auditing 3
S How to Learn all aspects of ISO 27001:2013 | The best way to grab the knowledge on 27001:2013 (Step by Step) IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 7
I Best visual description for SOPs? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
Z Best Practices - small volume medical device tube cutting (0.020" to 0.080" OD)? Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
M Over-labelling - Any requirements or best-practices? Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 0
M Informational DITTA White Paper on Cybersecurity: Best Practices in the Medical Technology Manufacturing Environment Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational BSI – MDR Documentation Submissions Best Practices Guidelines Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
K Which clause would best fit this Nonconformance? (Supplier Related) Internal Auditing 2
P How to have employees buy-in of quality procedures. Best practices? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
S Expiry date vs. Best Before Date - Reagents ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 9
C Will anyone please share training material for ISO:13485:2016 for best practices Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 0
E Best GD&T training - Your suggestions and recommendations please Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
M Best Practice for setting tolerances on a Drawing Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
M PCBA Drawing Best Practices IPC Class 3 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
Ron Rompen Best Practices in CMM Correlation Studies General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Best place is to purchase IEC 60417 labels that will pass markings test IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 1
P Best approach to tackle difficult certifications Career and Occupation Discussions 2
E Best Ways to Close a Project APQP and PPAP 3
S Opinions on the "Best" CMM for High Accuracy Machining General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
C What is the best ISO 22000 template pack to purchase? Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 2
M Best Type of Grease for Vex Plastic Gears Manufacturing and Related Processes 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom