What is the difference between Error Proofing and Controls? ISO/IATF 16949 - Control Plans

Jimmy123

Involved In Discussions
#1
What is the difference between Error Proofing and Controls? Error Proofing is not only Poka Yoke, right? What other kind of Error Proofing do you use? And why could this not documented under Controls? What is the clear difference between this 4 columns, where AIAG have got only 2 columns In the previous CP?
 
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Bill Levinson

Industrial Statistician and Trainer
#2
Error proofing is considered a control. IATF 16949 Annex A cites methods such as
Evaluation measurement technique
Error proofing
Sample size and frequency
Control method

"Sample size and frequency" could easily relate to statistical process control, but error proofing is in there explicitly.

The APQP manual (page 53) adds that SPC, inspection, attribute data, and error-proofing are all control methods.
 

Jimmy123

Involved In Discussions
#3
Error proofing is considered a control. IATF 16949 Annex A cites methods such as
Evaluation measurement technique
Error proofing
Sample size and frequency
Control method

"Sample size and frequency" could easily relate to statistical process control, but error proofing is in there explicitly.

The APQP manual (page 53) adds that SPC, inspection, attribute data, and error-proofing are all control methods.
Question is, why divided in different columns? What’s the reason, or how do I have to handle it In the right way? An auditor told us, we should have more under error proofing. We listed only Poka Yoke solutions in this column.
 

Bill Levinson

Industrial Statistician and Trainer
#4
Question is, why divided in different columns? What’s the reason, or how do I have to handle it In the right way? An auditor told us, we should have more under error proofing. We listed only Poka Yoke solutions in this column.
Poka yoke is error proofing (and definitely a "control" as listed in AIAG's APQP manual).

Column 25 on control method (AIAG APQP manual) includes a wide range of controls, among which is error proofing but can also involve SPC.
 
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Jimmy123

Involved In Discussions
#5
Is a cross check a control or an error proofing? Is error proving preventive focus on the cause and Control in IATF more detection of failure modes?
 

Bill Levinson

Industrial Statistician and Trainer
#6
Is a cross check a control or an error proofing? Is error proving preventive focus on the cause and Control in IATF more detection of failure modes?
A cross check sounds more like an administrative control (if it relies on people to do it, i.e. vigilance and compliance) rather than an engineering control that makes the problem impossible. Error proofing is definitely preventive; detection involves something bad that has actually happened. That is, error proofing prevents generation of the defect, while detection can catch it before it leaves the process or operation.
 

AMIT BALLAL

Trusted Information Resource
#7
Error proofing and poka yoke are same. It can be to prevent occurrence of a problem or to help detect a problem / its cause.
If the control method is a poka yoke, it will come under error proofing column and if its not, it will come under control method column.
 

Jimmy123

Involved In Discussions
#8
Error proofing and poka yoke are same. It can be to prevent occurrence of a problem or to help detect a problem / its cause.
If the control method is a poka yoke, it will come under error proofing column and if its not, it will come under control method column.
This was our understanding too, but the auditor expected more than Poka Yoke under Error Proofing column. Now I would like figure out , what other things can be listed under Error Proofing. Is e.g. check the checker an error proofing?
 
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