What is the difference between normal and licensed internal auditor?

Qualityx

Starting to get Involved
#1
Dear All,

i will ask you what is the difference between normal internal auditor and licensed internal auditor for VDA 6.3. We were educated to VDA 6.3, all people gets the internal auditor, but two of us were extra examined to a level up auditor. So i will ask, what are the main authorities and responsibilities differences between "normal" and the licensed auditor. The educator was talking about some account and some auditor card... . Please explain this to me.

Thank you for reply.
 

Johnson

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Dear All,

i will ask you what is the difference between normal internal auditor and licensed internal auditor for VDA 6.3. We were educated to VDA 6.3, all people gets the internal auditor, but two of us were extra examined to a level up auditor. So i will ask, what are the main authorities and responsibilities differences between "normal" and the licensed auditor. The educator was talking about some account and some auditor card... . Please explain this to me.

Thank you for reply.
IATF 16949:2016 has defined the requirements to inernal auditors and scond party auditors
- 7.2.3 Internal auditor competency for quality management system auditors,manufacturing process auditors (VDA6.3 process auditor is a typical manufactuing process audit) , product auditors
- 7.2.4 Second-party auditor competency for supplier audit (also including VDA6.3 process audit)

I don't think "normal internal auditor" and "licensed internal auditor" is official ISO9000 vocabulary. It is not neccessary and even not reasonable to divide internal auditor as "normal" or "licended". But you may have audit leader or auditor for QMS or process audit. The organization shall maintain a list of qualified internal auditors (including VDA6.3 internal auditor". Some kind of certificate of qualifictaion is good but not mandatory.

For second party VDA6.3 auditor, though IATF16949:2016 does not specify how the auditor should be trained and qualified. But many customers with VDA requirements (like VW, BMW, Daimler) do expect external VDA6.3 training, and some kind of "license" or "certificate of qualification" is prefered or requested.
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
But you may have audit leader or auditor for QMS or process audit.
The term "Lead Auditor" is an external (professional) auditor title. Internal auditors need no such differentiation. And attending a "Lead Auditor" course, confers no special skills or knowledge or even a title.
 

Johnson

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
The term "Lead Auditor" is an external (professional) auditor title. Internal auditors need no such differentiation. And attending a "Lead Auditor" course, confers no special skills or knowledge or even a title.
I agree that : The term "Lead Auditor" is an external (professional) auditor title. Internal auditors need no such differentiation. So I did not mention "lead auditor" , but I mentioned "audit leader" which in fact should be called "audit team leader"

It looks to me now the wording "lead auditor" has been replaced with " audit team leader" in ISO 9001 and ISO90011 . Please refer:
ISO9001:2015 setion 3.13.14 stated: One auditor (3.13.15) of the audit team is appointed as the audit team leader.
ISO90011:2011 also divide audit team members as "auditor", and " audit team leader" who is also one of the auditor
The audit team leader is not really an title, but it's a role in one audit team. One "audit team leader" in one audit can be one "auditor" in another audit.
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
but I mentioned "audit leader" which in fact should be called "audit team leader"
I believe this comes from placing too much emphasis on doing internal audits to emulate the external audit process with "teams" etc. Most organizations I encounter these days don't need audit teams. IMHO, internal audits should be very focused on specific intentions, and not need more than one to carry them out. Sure, once in a while a system wide audit is helpful, but once the QMS is established, the internal audits shouldn't be replicating the CB. And, from the beginning, ISO 19011 has been a "one-size-fits-all" approach to ALL audits and isn't sensitive to the needs of organizations who don't have the need for anything more than "quick and dirty" audits done (only) to confirm the system is still working - or not.
 
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antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Dear All,

i will ask you what is the difference between normal internal auditor and licensed internal auditor for VDA 6.3. We were educated to VDA 6.3, all people gets the internal auditor, but two of us were extra examined to a level up auditor. So i will ask, what are the main authorities and responsibilities differences between "normal" and the licensed auditor. The educator was talking about some account and some auditor card... . Please explain this to me.

Thank you for reply.
Indeed there is a difference.
You can follow a training in VDA6.3 auditing and get a certificate that you have followed said training.
But some (most German) customers require that VDA6.3 internal auditors are "card holders" meaning they have passed an exam after being trained by a "licensed training organisation". The card has an identification number etc...
 

Qualityx

Starting to get Involved
#8
Thank you guys for explaining, so the difference in the extra examination for the "card holders" auditors is because there must be somebody to upload the results to the portals?
 

Sebastian

Involved - Posts
#10
Please take a look on this.
7.2.4 / 8.4.2.4.1 [...] The process-audits in the supply chain must be conducted in accordance to Formel-Q-Capability by certified VDA 6.3 auditors (see auditor qualification in Section 3.2 of FQF 8.0)
Certified for VW means, that training was provided by recognized training company, like e.g. VDA-QMC.
I've heard, other German customers are not so strict and accept auditors trained by other companies.
 
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