What is the difference in process audit (TS) and VDA6.3

[Jaco]

Hey every one,
Does any one here known about the VDA6.3, which named as process audit and led me consider it maybe same as term mentioned in TS Standard. But, I found it was totally different from that. So what is the real definition for “process” mention in VDA standard? Another about VDA6.3, what the “quality plan” means? Could I think it is APQP mentioned QS?


Thanks for any help

 

[Howard Atkins]

For those of you that are not familar with VDA 6.3 the audit is divided into the following subjects
A Product Development Process
1. Planning Product Development (Design)
2. Realizing Product Development
3. Process Development Planning
4. Realizing Process Development

B Serial Production
5. Suppliers/Input Material
6. Production- for each process
6.1. Personnel/Qualification
6.2. Production Material/Equipment
6.3. Transport/Parts Handling/Storage/Packaging
6.4. Fault analysis/Correction/ Continual Improvement
7. Customer Service, Customer Satisfaction, Service

This is in fact an extended form of the process audit and begins with the input from the customer and not as one might expect from the internal order to produce. In fact it is from the initial customer order for the part.

The VW book to be found at this link
Process Audit template which has been tried and tested in fact is the audit.
The body starts at page 55

In relation to the Quality plan in 1.2.3 and 2.2.2 it is explained exactly what is needed.

I hope this helps

 

[p_tww]

Hey every one,
Does any one here known about the VDA6.3, which named as process audit and led me consider it maybe same as term mentioned in TS Standard. But, I found it was totally different from that. So what is the real definition for “process” mention in VDA standard? Another about VDA6.3, what the “quality plan” means? Could I think it is APQP mentioned QS?


Thanks for any help

VDA6.3 is used together with VDA6.1 registration audit, you could use it as guidline for Process audit as required in TS. Howard had given you some kind suggestions on process audit requirements from VW.
QUality plan in VDA means Control plan in QS/TS.

 

[SilverHawk]

VDA 6.3 Modified

It was a laughing stock when the Malaysian Proton car manufacturer requested their suppliers to be compliance to VDA6.3. Knowing that VDA6.3 is too strict to follow, the TUV modified and simplified VDA6.3 so that the Proton Vendors/Suppliers can meet the requirements.

Working hand-in-glove, the vendor audit was conducted and there is nothing to shout about! Why don't they (both the OEM and suppliers) work together to "make to last" rather tahn just white wash....... at the end of the tunnel, it is consumers that have to bear all the "costs".

 

[Jaco]

comparison of VDA and TS

Hey thanks for all help,
i am very interested in VDA series standards, although I was lacking of the knowledge about them. I began to read the VDA6.3 two days ago, and I found VDA6.3 requirement mostly describe as a manner like the ISO9K/94 did. All of the works for auditor, I think, is just to inquire/check item by item. Maybe the auditor even did not know what’s he really want himself, because the “process approach” do not be emphasized in VDA. Or I could say, the works to identify the process in individual company has been done by VDA herself. But sometimes we need to design, develop, and manage a process beyond VDA standards(just like some supporting process) , so it may be difficult for you to find a answer to deal with it. Then I get the conclusion (just for my personnel point) after comparing with the two standard:


TS intend to provide not only a standard for auditing, but a systematic method to improve quality.

VDA just intend to provide a standard.


What is your opinion?

 

[Howard Atkins]

Hey thanks for all help,
i am very interested in VDA series standards, although I was lacking of the knowledge about them. I began to read the VDA6.3 two days ago, and I found VDA6.3 requirement mostly describe as a manner like the ISO9K/94 did. ....
TS intend to provide not only a standard for auditing, but a systematic method to improve quality.

VDA just intend to provide a standard.


What is your opinion?

You must remember that The current editions of VDA 6.1 and 6.3 are from 1998 and are ISO 9001:1994 based.
The German companies and their worldwide subsidiarys are still using them for supplier approval.
They have added on aspects such as environment etc.

The approach where they start from product development seems to me to be sensible as this is what they want to know about how a new supplier will deal with their product.
In a manner they have preceded the TS requirement for Design and development for manufacturing processes. There is more emphasis on the system and less on the actual production but the theory is if the manufacturing process is built correctly then the conformity of the parts will in fact follow.

Registration to TS is now accepted instead of VDA but you can look at 6.3 as another CSR.

 

[p_tww]

Hey thanks for all help,
i am very interested in VDA series standards, although I was lacking of the knowledge about them. I began to read the VDA6.3 two days ago, and I found VDA6.3 requirement mostly describe as a manner like the ISO9K/94 did. All of the works for auditor, I think, is just to inquire/check item by item. Maybe the auditor even did not know what’s he really want himself, because the “process approach” do not be emphasized in VDA. Or I could say, the works to identify the process in individual company has been done by VDA herself. But sometimes we need to design, develop, and manage a process beyond VDA standards(just like some supporting process) , so it may be difficult for you to find a answer to deal with it. Then I get the conclusion (just for my personnel point) after comparing with the two standard:


TS intend to provide not only a standard for auditing, but a systematic method to improve quality.

VDA just intend to provide a standard.


What is your opinion?

VDA is generated as using ISO9k94 plateform, but they had addtional requirements for each operation/process. I believe they also focused process approach, you know process aproach was also identified in ISO9004:1994.
VDA6.1 is system requirements, VDA6.3 is for process audit, guidline for process audit which was identified in VDA6.1.