What is the Reference Value when we do Attribute MSA Studies?

S

sandy3444

#1
Hi Dear Members,

I am new on this forum and I want to ask you something. Please tell me, what is the reference value when we do attribute MSA studies? Is this value a standard and never changes with the condition? If not, then please tell me where I can find these values?
 
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Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
the reference value is the actual measured value of the part.


as a note for future reference, a simple search here or google can answer some of these realtively easy questions. in fact a google search for "attribute MSA reference value" returns posts in this forum as the top hits...
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Hi Dear Members,


I am new on this forum and I want to ask you something. Please tell me, what is the reference value when we do attribute MSA studies? Is this value a standard and never changes with the condition? If not, then please tell me where I can find these values?
Hi, and welcome to the cove.

In pure attributive MSA you do not have values that can be expressed in numbers.
What we always do is :
1) Search for a number of samples and mark each sample by e.g. a letter.
2) Decide what the customer would think about these parts(good or bad)
3) Make sure you have :
a number of bad ones
a number of good ones
and preferably
a number of good ones (but near the edge of bad ones)
a number of bad ones (but near the edge of good ones)
4) Let the appraisers check all samples for 3 times ( 3 times in random order )
5) Calculate and decide if the result of the MSA study is good or bad.

The decision in number 2) is in most cases done by quality " with the eye of the customer ".
This is then called the reference for each part checked.
Complete explanation and sample study can be found in the AIAG manual which is available ( to buy ) on the site : http://www.aiag.org

I hope this helps.

Best regards,

Antoine
 
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S

sandy3444

#4
thanks dear
but i still cant understand how can i calculate reference value.from where it is come.i am talking about the reference value given in table 12:attribute study data set on page 127 of msa reference manual sanctioned by the Daimler Chrysler Corporation/Ford Motors Company/General Motors Corporation Supplier Quality Task FORCE ...edition 3rd .. please can u explain?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
thanks dear
but i still cant understand how can i calculate reference value.from where it is come.i am talking about the reference value given in table 12:attribute study data set on page 127 of msa reference manual sanctioned by the Daimler Chrysler Corporation/Ford Motors Company/General Motors Corporation Supplier Quality Task FORCE ...edition 3rd .. please can u explain?
MSA 4th Edition is the latest version you must use.

Stijloor.
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
thanks dear
but i still cant understand how can i calculate reference value.from where it is come.i am talking about the reference value given in table 12:attribute study data set on page 127 of msa reference manual sanctioned by the Daimler Chrysler Corporation/Ford Motors Company/General Motors Corporation Supplier Quality Task FORCE ...edition 3rd .. please can u explain?
Hi,

I already explained this in a previous post.
See : http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=13341
and check for post number 7.

Hope this helps,

Best regards and lots of success,

Antoine
 
S

sandy3444

#8
actually i am struggling with this customer requires this attribute study and i am hanging up with reference value
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
sorry.... i have seen this post.. but it is not clear to me yet
thanks anyway...
In the company of the example they had difficulties in a certain process step.
The measurement of parts ( parts were measured initially ) is a very long process and they wanted a quicker way to evaluate.
To do this they installed a GO - NOGO gauge ( attributive check ) as in the sample.
The 50 parts in the sample were already measured and those are the results in the reference column.
To release the attributive way of checking they performed the attributive MSA to see how and if it would be acceptable or not.

That was the story behind the excercise in the manual.

Hope this clears some clouds now

Best regards,

Antoine
 
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