What is the TS 16949 Stage 1 Audit Requirement on Internal Audit?

D

darkafar

#1
Rules for achieving IATF recognition page 16 states, "Stage 1 Audit - Readiness Review. The organization shall provide the following documentation to the audit team for review, and for use in planning the audit.
......
Internal audit and management review planning and results from previous twelve months."

Suppose we just have our system established in Oct this year. We did not have an internal audit untill Sep next year. we apply for a readiness review in Oct next year. and provide the Sep's internal audit and management review planning and results to the certification body, Do you think we meet this requirement?

I have a little dispute with my direct supervisor. My direct supervisor insisted that we have to have an internal audit now. So I want to be sure of myself.
 
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Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#2
Suppose we just have our system established in Oct this year. We did not have an internal audit untill Sep next year. we apply for a readiness review in Oct next year. and provide the Sep's internal audit and management review planning and results to the certification body, Do you think we meet this requirement?
Hello darkafar,

I would not gamble on it. Based on your scenario, you would only have 1 month to fix audit nonconformities, verify effectiveness of the corrective actions, submit audit results for management review, management has to review the status of corrective and preventive actions, etc.

By the way, why would you want to wait so long to perform internal audits? It's a new system, could still have weaknesses. Why not conducting regular audits throughout the year? Audits that add real value? Think about it.

Stijloor.
 
D

darkafar

#3
Hello darkafar,

I would not gamble on it. Based on your scenario, you would only have 1 month to fix audit nonconformities, verify effectiveness of the corrective actions, submit audit results for management review, management has to review the status of corrective and preventive actions, etc.

By the way, why would you want to wait so long to perform internal audits? It's a new system, could still have weaknesses. Why not conducting regular audits throughout the year? Audits that add real value? Think about it.

Stijloor.
It's my way of describing things. I usually gave an extreme scenaro that usually would not happen. :)

I probably would like to start audit next Jan, but I definitly don't want to do it now, when I see many obvious problems in the system and I am having a little dispute with the manager.

I describe things in this way in order to know that if we only audit once during the twelve-month period, submit the one month's auditing record, do we still meet the requirement?

My opinion is that we still meet the requirement. I want to know who, and how many people oppose my opinion.
 
#4
No, you wouldn't meet the requirements of TS, let alone the TS rules. Doing an audit once doesn't meet the requirements to ...... establish an audit programme, based on status and importance of processes..... etc.

Internal audits shouldn't be a replication of a third party audit, in frequency i.e once or twice a year.

If you know there are problems, use the audit to report them to management in a factual manner and get yourself out of the mix with your supervisor too. Don't wait, the more history you build with audits the better off you'll be on a number of fronts. Also, you've got the obvious opportunity to do them with management support - even if it's not for the best of reasons. Don't second guess the manager, just do them and then see how serious they are about addressing the issues, because now they are formalized for actions.......
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#5
Hello darkafar,

I would not gamble on it. Based on your scenario, you would only have 1 month to fix audit nonconformities, verify effectiveness of the corrective actions, submit audit results for management review, management has to review the status of corrective and preventive actions, etc.

By the way, why would you want to wait so long to perform internal audits? It's a new system, could still have weaknesses. Why not conducting regular audits throughout the year? Audits that add real value? Think about it.

Stijloor.

If he could do everything he and Stiljoor mentions, it could meet the requirement. But, there has to be 12 months of data of good performance, and the audits do not really "count" until the process audited is actually completely implemented. So, maybe finish your implementations, but begin the real auditing in June of next year. Before that, you can do practice audits.
 
D

darkafar

#6
If he could do everything he and Stiljoor mentions, it could meet the requirement. But, there has to be 12 months of data of good performance, and the audits do not really "count" until the process audited is actually completely implemented. So, maybe finish your implementations, but begin the real auditing in June of next year. Before that, you can do practice audits.
If this stuff isn't saving Time or Money, why are we doing it?
I agree with you. If I audit now, there would be too many problems for me to write down. Our system hasn't been actually implemented. We missed many requirements and procedures now.

I did a paper review, that are already too many problems for me to handle, not to mention there is a QA manager standing in my way. :)
 
#7
I totally agree with hjilling on the action steps that he has suggested.

darkafar, have a good sytem in place first and thne start the readiness subsequently.

Btw, understand - what is a stage 1 audit? It is a review with the intent to ascertain the “readiness” of the organization to proceed to a stage 2 on-site audit. The stage 1 audit needs to examine : “The stage 1 audit shall be performed to evaluate if the internal audits and management review are being planned and performed effectively and that the level of implementation of the management system substantiates that the client organization is ready for the stage 2 audit.

I am also attaching a document, " Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition 2nd Edition FAQ’s" which could be helpful to you.

Best luck :agree1:
 

Attachments

P

potdar

#8
No, you wouldn't meet the requirements of TS, let alone the TS rules. Doing an audit once doesn't meet the requirements to ...... establish an audit programme, based on status and importance of processes..... etc.

Internal audits shouldn't be a replication of a third party audit, in frequency i.e once or twice a year.


If you know there are problems, use the audit to report them to management in a factual manner and get yourself out of the mix with your supervisor too. Don't wait, the more history you build with audits the better off you'll be on a number of fronts. Also, you've got the obvious opportunity to do them with management support - even if it's not for the best of reasons. Don't second guess the manager, just do them and then see how serious they are about addressing the issues, because now they are formalized for actions.......
Sounds sensible.

Does IATF anywhere specify how many or how frequent audits satisfy the TS requirements?
 
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