What is the Value of ISO 9001 Certification? Assessors don't do 'their job'

T

The Assessor

#1
I previously posted this message, but it has failed to appear so apologies for any duplication.

What is the value of ISO certification, where Assessors fail to implement the standards they are supposed to measure companies against?

How can a company retain registration where;

Of the 4 Management reviews scheduled, only one took place. At that meeting there were 2 attendees (from an organisation of some 2500!)

There is no core purchasing procedure, there is NO supplier assessment carried out (of which there are 6000!!).

There is no core HSPPD procedures.

The internal auditing schedule was not up to date, resources are limited! There is no up to date organisation chart and job descriptions are almost non-existent!

Quality records are not systematically identified and addressed as per the applicable requirements of the standard.

The most outstanding issue however is the fact that at the previous assessment 21 noncompliances were raised. Of these only 9 had been effectively addressed!!

Oh and by the way the assessor raised an "observation" over the fact that there had been insufficient management reviews conducted!!!

The list of non-compliance could go on, however the fact remains that standards are NOT being applied effectively. Cash is King in all businesses and so, it would appear, this is the case in 3rd Party registration companies. The registration firm in this case received some £12,000+ per annum for their services, obviously losing this contract would seriously dent their income.

UKAS are supposed to "Police" the industry (in the UK), but what are they doing? I have heard rumours that they encourage Accredited bodies not to take registrations away, why?

Any comments or concerns?


[This message has been edited by The Assessor (edited 10-04-98).]
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
D

Don Winton

#2
Assessor,

I will try to address your concerns:

“What is the value of ISO certification, where Assessors fail to implement the standards they are supposed to measure companies against?”
There is no value to ISO certification. It is to certify that a company meets the requirements of the standard. By the way, it is not certification, it is registration (I think?). If your Quality Management System tells you to build cement life jackets, that is what is what you will build (apologies, Marc).

“Of the 4 Management reviews scheduled, only one took place. At that meeting there were 2 attendees (from an organization of some 2500!)”
What did the procedure say!!! Were they in compliance with the procedure, or not?

“There is no core purchasing procedure, there is NO supplier assessment carried out (of which there are 6000!!).”
There is not a requirement that suppliers be assessed, only that they be approved. However, this lack of a procedure is a concern.

“There is no core HSPPD procedures.” Where does it say that these are required!!!

“The internal auditing schedule was not up to date, resources are limited! There is no up to date organization chart and job descriptions are almost non-existent”
Schedules are not required. Only that internal audits be carried out as described in the standard and the associated procedures.

As to the rest, you can see that I am skeptical. If the supplier is, in fact, this sloppy (pardon), I suggest that the complaint be submitted to the registrar. Document and submit the complaint.

Marc,
Did I miss anything. Your input would be helpful here.
Thanks and Best Regards,
Don
 
R

Roger Eastin

#3
I understand your reply, Don, but I think this gentleman's question is pointed at the registrar. (I think the registrar should be a "notch higher" in compliance than those they register.) If the registrar is this sloppy, then it does make me wonder how they can measure someone else's compliance! I take it that this registrar is in the UK. If the certification body does not police the registrars the way they should, then I am not sure what the next step should be...
 

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
me too, marc.......

Its my understanding that UCAS has been good at cracking the whip...my UCAS registrar keeps a tight ship......and cites the control of UCAS as its driving force on that.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
L Value of an integrated system (iso 9001, iso 14001, oshas 18001) Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 11
Marc The Value of ISO 9001 Registration and the 'Dark Side' of Implementation ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
Marc Interesting Discussion ISO 9001 - Snake Oil? A discussion of the validity/value of ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 60
A The Value of ISO 9001 in the 'Real World' ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
R Value of ISO 9001 for a Clinic in Ohio ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
P Which ISO 13485 clause(es) are applicable for Value Proposition Creation ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
T ISO Auditor Training - What online training is actually value added? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
W DIN ISO 1101 - Show me the General Dimensioning Tolerance Value Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
T Calculating Characteristic Value using ISO 16269-6 Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 5
M BS ISO/IEC 17799:2005 and ISO 27001:2005: Any advice on value and implementation? Customer and Company Specific Requirements 4
A Linking ISO 9000 to Economic Value Added ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
Proud Liberal Improving low p-value Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 13
BeaBea Registrars with VAR (Value Added Reseller) experience Registrars and Notified Bodies 6
qualprod Best approach to get a real value as average? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 6
F Missing value of Uncertainty B Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 8
F Calibration certificate content - Average Value and True Value ISO 17025 related Discussions 6
S In BAC5300 we have machining mismatch allowed is 3tau, what is the value of tau? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
S Change value of target during a batch Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 0
A Acceptance p-value for linearity and bias analysis in minitab results Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
A Torque Value for Different types of Fasteners (Socket Head, Button Head, CSK) Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
M IATF 16949 - 8.5.6.1.1 Providing a list of process controls: Does this requirement add value to QMS? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
qualprod Cycle times, value stream mapping, inventory, average values? Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 1
Ashok sunder What are the criteria for setting a target KPI value against a quality objective? Benchmarking 7
S Adding Value prior to signing EASA Form 1 EASA and JAA Aviation Standards and Requirements 5
M Creating a Plant Level Value Stream Map Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 1
A IMDS - Changing the Locked Weight Value RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 1
T Value Chain Map for Food Services Industry Service Industry Specific Topics 1
O P-Value less than 0.05. but everything else in control Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 19
qualprod P x I = Value interpretation for residual risk? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
O CPK with a P value less than 0.005 Manufacturing and Related Processes 8
G What degrees of freedom means in uncertainty budget and how do I set the value Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 2
Q Really do they add value (Vision, Mission, Values)? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
D What is the exact Temperature Coefficient Value to be set on a Conductivity Meter? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
M Value Stream Mapping Calculations Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 5
L How to interpret the average R bar Value shown in the R Chart Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
G Non Value Added Corrective Actions IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
R How To Calculate & Print CDF and Lower Bound CDF value for some t(time) with Minitab? Using Minitab Software 1
P Purpose of calculating Uncertainty value in calibration study Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 5
J Agenda of Value Stream Mapping workshop required Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 1
M What is the value of documenting in-process rework for easily-detectable issues? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 4
R VSM - Value Stream Mapping (catheter manufacturing unit) Customer Complaints 10
W Quality for value adding or certification? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 23
T Cpk for 0 as Ideal Value Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 1
dubrizo Internal Audit Value - What is the point of conducting internal audits to a checklist Internal Auditing 40
L 5 minutes only for this Survey on the Value of PDCA and Your EMS Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 1
M How calculate P value for Linearity and Bias using Excel Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 8
J F and P-value in L9 Taguchi Design Using Minitab Software 22
Sean Kelley Value of Ppk or Cpk when targeting thinner material Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4
B How to validate Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet Calculations for the Cpk value Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 9
V Analysis of 'Value Added' System & Process Steps - Inspection Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom