What is your favorite flavor of GUM?

What is your favorite flavor of GUM?

  • A2LA GUM 42pgs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NIST tech note 1297 25pgs

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • M3003 GUM 82pgs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Saudi GUM 137pgs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • French BIPM JCGM GUM

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ISO guide 98-1 preview only

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Drongo’s uncertainty guide

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
  • Poll closed .
G

George Weiss

#1
Too-many-old-broken-links-to-fix.jpg

TOO MANY OLD BROKEN LINKS TO FIX, BUT THESE ARE THE ONES FROM THE POST - SORRY.
 
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G

Graeme

#3
Interesting poll - but I would like to clear up one misconception.

There is only ONE GUM, available from two primary sources (below). Any document other than those two is only an interpretation of the original. Only the actual standard can be used for conformance requirements, not an interpretive document.

The official GUM documents are:
ISO/IEC Guide 98-3:2008, Uncertainty of measurement - Part 3: Guide to the expression of uncertainty in measurement (GUM:1995). Cost CHF 208,00 (approximately $US 210.00). Available from ISO - International Organization for Standardization or from your national standards organization (ANSI in the USA).​
From the abstract: "ISO/IEC Guide 98-3:2008 is a reissue of the 1995 version of the Guide to the expression of uncertainty in measurement (GUM), with minor corrections."​
The catalog page also has a note that this standard is based on JCGM 100 (see below).​
[Note: "CHF" is the currency label for Swiss Francs.]​
JCGM 100:2008, GUM: Guide to the expression of uncertainty in measurement (GUM 1995 with minor corrections). FREE. Available from BIPM - guides (the VIM is also available here, at the same "price".)​
Note the priority of these documents: ISO/IEC Guide 98-3 "is based on" JCGM 100:2008, which means that the (free) JCGM document is the actual standard and the ISO/IEC guide ($$$) is a copy of the standard. Either way, they are both "GUM:1995 with minor corrections".

Again, all of the other documents listed in the poll are interpretations of how to apply the standard, and therefore are not valid references for conformance requirements. If I am assessing your lab, I expect to see one of the two offical versions - if you only have NIST TN-1297 or only UKAS M3003, that is not sufficient.

This is not to say that there is anything necessarily "wrong" with the other listed documents. They definitely have their uses and are appropriate - in addition to an actual copy of the actual standard - in the intended environments.
  • Each accreditation body (A2LA and UKAS were specifically mentioned in the poll; there are five others in the USA and many more worldwide) have their own requirements as a supplement to ISO/IEC 17025. If you want to become accredited, you had better understand and conform to the interpretations and supplemental requirements of your AB!
  • UKAS M3003 is very useful not only for its interpretations but also for the abundance of worked-out examples.
  • NIST TN-1297 is their interpretation of (an earlier version of) the GUM intended for their own internal use.
  • EURACHEM/CITAC Guide CG-4 (listed as QUAM 2000-1) is an interpretation of the GUM for the analytical chemistry field.
  • The IAEA document is interpretation of the GUM for the nuclear industry.
  • And so on.
Again, only JCGM 100:2008 and ISO/IEC Guide 98-3:2008 are the official versions of the GUM. You can use either, and must have a copy of one of them if you are - or want to be - accredited. Which one you use is up to you; for me, free is better than $210.

Graeme
 
D

dv8shane

#4
If I am assessing your lab, I expect to see one of the two offical versions - if you only have NIST TN-1297 or only UKAS M3003, that is not sufficient.......
I disagree especially where you say must have a copy and that the other varieties are not sufficient. The standard allows the laboratory to use what ever procedure it wants

I suggest you read 5.4.6 over. It makes only a reference to the GUM in the notes. It is not a requirement to have a copy. Note 3 page 15 " For further information see ISO 5725 and the Guide to the Expression of Uncertainty of Measurement"

Shane
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#5
I don't chew gum, but I intend to get a number of those stacked packages for my son's Christmas stocking. :)
 
G

Graeme

#6
I disagree especially where you say must have a copy and that the other varieties are not sufficient. The standard allows the laboratory to use what ever procedure it wants

I suggest you read 5.4.6 over. It makes only a reference to the GUM in the notes. It is not a requirement to have a copy. Note 3 page 15 " For further information see ISO 5725 and the Guide to the Expression of Uncertainty of Measurement"

Shane
Thank you for your comments. I agree that ISO/IEC 17025:2005 only specifically mentions the GUM in 5.4.6 note 3 and in the bibliography. However, I also said

“Each accreditation body … [has] their own requirements as a supplement to ISO/IEC 17025. If you want to become accredited, you had better understand and conform to the interpretations and supplemental requirements of your AB!”

Every US-based AB (and, I assume, all others in the world) have supplemental requirements for measurement uncertainty. The common thread among all of them is that they all specifically reference the GUM as published by ISO (and all the others on the committee). Most do not include a date, which usually implies the most current version is to be used. Most also reference other documents; the most common are ANSI/NCSL Z540-2, NIST TN 1297, and EA-4/02. Note that Z540-2 and TN 1297 are based on the 1993 version of the GUM. The current version (2008) is the 1995 version with corrections. The relevant policies are listed here (in alphabetical order by AB acronym):

A2LA: P102 Policy on Measurement Traceability
ACLASS: ACLASS ISO/IEC 17025 Accreditation Requirements
IAS: Policy Guide on Calibration, Traceability and measurement Uncertainty
L-A-B: Policy 001.1 Uncertainty of Measurement
NVLAP: NIST HB 150:2006 NVLAP Procedures and General Requirements and the HB 150-2 series program-specific handbooks
PJLA: PL-3 Policy on Measurement Uncertainty for Calibration and Testing Laboratories

Note that the NVLAP documents specifically reference the 1993 GUM, which means that a lab should have a copy of that as well as (instead of?) the 2008 version. While having been twice replaced with a newer version, the 1993 version is at least consistent with Z540-2 and TN 1297, both of which are based on it.

So, I will revise my statement to say that an accredited laboratory should have a current "official" version of the GUM and/or other uncertainty-related documents required or permitted by their accreditation body. As the JCGM edition is free, it should not be a hardship for even the smallest lab.
 
D

dv8shane

#7
Note that the NVLAP documents specifically reference the 1993 GUM, which means that a lab should have a copy of that as well as (instead of?) the 2008 version. While having been twice replaced with a newer version, the 1993 version is at least consistent with Z540-2 and TN 1297, both of which are based on it.
Part of what I was pointing out is that if you have the budgets done properly you do not need to have the GUM on file. If you were to audit and found the budgets all correct, there is no way you could raise a finding on this.
The CLAS of NRC which is the equivalent of NVLAP does have their own and it too references the 1993 edition.

http :// www. nrc-cnrc. gc .ca/obj/inms-ienm/doc/clas-clas/clas_requirements_document_05.pdf. - BROKEN LINK UNLINKED

What do you think about this in regards to test uncertainty ratio;

The resolution component of the unit under test must be included as it is part of the measurement system. This will swamp the contributions to uncertainty of say an 8 digit DC calibrator that has an uncertainty of ± 10 uV/V at 10 V and a 4.5 digit dmm that has a resolution of 1 mV so now you are essentially comparing the resolution to the accuracy of the unit under test, because the contribution from the calibrator is 10% and below the ability to cause any effect on the UUT reading.
 
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G

Graeme

#8
Part of what I was pointing out is that if you have the budgets done properly you do not need to have the GUM on file. If you were to audit and found the budgets all correct, there is no way you could raise a finding on this.
Correct. If the uncertainty budgets are done properly, I probably would not even think I need to ask about if you have a copy of the GUM.


What do you think about this in regards to test uncertainty ratio;

The resolution component of the unit under test must be included as it is part of the measurement system. This will swamp the contributions to uncertainty of say an 8 digit DC calibrator that has an uncertainty of ± 10 uV/V at 10 V and a 4.5 digit dmm that has a resolution of 1 mV so now you are essentially comparing the resolution to the accuracy of the unit under test, because the contribution from the calibrator is 10% and below the ability to cause any effect on the UUT reading.
The resolution of the UUT must, as you say, be included in the uncertainty budget. In the case where the UUT resolution is many times larger than the uncertainty of the measurement standard, the repeatibility measurements may show either no difference, or just two or three values that are +/- 1 resolution unit. (For example: 9.999, 10.000 and 10.001) In that type of case, the resolution must be included but you can consider omitting repeatability, since it is obviously much smaller than the resolution. That should be noted on the budget, though.

Remember that the resolution component is either [1 LSD / sqrt(12)] or [0.5 LSD / sqrt(3)]. The two are the same when you do the math. (LSD = least significant digit.)
 
D

dv8shane

#9
Thank you for your intelligent reply, although you did not answer the question directly the implications are clear.
 
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