What level PPAP for 5 critical parts?

Jafri

Involved In Discussions
#1
We haven't a new product and there are going to be several part suppliers. For 5 critical parts, we have decided to ask for level 3 PPAP.

But I'm wondering what should we do for remaining suppliers PPAP?! Especially those where we are buying off-the-shelf items. Parts like nuts, bolts, small springs, adhesive, etc.

What level PPAP should we ask from them?

Your help is really appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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#2
PPAP level 3 would be enough information to go by, plus it is pretty standard to ask level 3 ppap.

"EDIT"
But then again i just noticed u were asking about nuts,bolts, smalls springs, by getting FAI (First article inspection) should be plenty enough for you.
 
Last edited:

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#3
For anything off the shelf I wouldn't ask for anything. How could they possibly PPAP it? For simple manufactured stuff, a simple first inspection would cover most of what you would need.
 

WCHorn

Rubber, Too Glamorous?
Trusted Information Resource
#4
But I'm wondering what should we do for remaining suppliers PPAP?! Especially those where we are buying off-the-shelf items. Parts like nuts, bolts, small springs, adhesive, etc.

What level PPAP should we ask from them?
The "PPAP" acronym has been used in many industries other than automotive to represent their submission requirements, and those industries may not invoke the same PPAP requirements as Automotive. Care is needed in those cases to make sure the manufacturer doesn't expend more resources than necessary to conform.

If you're talking about an automotive PPAP according to the AIAG requirements, then according to the AIAG PPAP manual, the PPAP Level refers to the submission level, not the amount of work the manufacturer has to perform. Once you ask for a PPAP of any Level, the manufacturer is obligated to complete all the items related to the PPAP process, unless those items are waived explicitly. The Level simply cites what information from the PPAP process the requester wants to have/review.

I agree with other posters that only an FAI report is needed for off-the-shelf items.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
The "PPAP" acronym has been used in many industries other than automotive to represent their submission requirements, and those industries may not invoke the same PPAP requirements as Automotive. Care is needed in those cases to make sure the manufacturer doesn't expend more resources than necessary to conform.

If you're talking about an automotive PPAP according to the AIAG requirements, then according to the AIAG PPAP manual, the PPAP Level refers to the submission level, not the amount of work the manufacturer has to perform. Once you ask for a PPAP of any Level, the manufacturer is obligated to complete all the items related to the PPAP process, unless those items are waived explicitly. The Level simply cites what information from the PPAP process the requester wants to have/review.

I agree with other posters that only an FAI report is needed for off-the-shelf items.

Very well put, but I think that material test reports may also be important for catalog items.
 

Jafri

Involved In Discussions
#6
Re: What level PPAP for off-the-shelf parts?

The "PPAP" acronym has been used in many industries other than automotive to represent their submission requirements, and those industries may not invoke the same PPAP requirements as Automotive. Care is needed in those cases to make sure the manufacturer doesn't expend more resources than necessary to conform.

If you're talking about an automotive PPAP according to the AIAG requirements, then according to the AIAG PPAP manual, the PPAP Level refers to the submission level, not the amount of work the manufacturer has to perform. Once you ask for a PPAP of any Level, the manufacturer is obligated to complete all the items related to the PPAP process, unless those items are waived explicitly. The Level simply cites what information from the PPAP process the requester wants to have/review.

I agree with other posters that only an FAI report is needed for off-the-shelf items.
We are not automotive but we are following AIAG's PPAP. Our suppliers may have different levels of understanding of automotive PPAP requirements.

So for off-the-shelf items, I am thinking of using level 2 PPAP, and explain the requirements to each supplier.
That is:
- Part submission warrant
- First article inspection (on specified dimensions)
- Material test results
- Appearance approval report (for appearance part)
- Sample product

Does it look ok?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Re: What level PPAP for off-the-shelf parts?

We are not automotive but we are following AIAG's PPAP. Our suppliers may have different levels of understanding of automotive PPAP requirements.

So for off-the-shelf items, I am thinking of using level 2 PPAP, and explain the requirements to each supplier.
That is:
- Part submission warrant
- First article inspection (on specified dimensions)
- Material test results
- Appearance approval report (for appearance part)
- Sample product

Does it look ok?

The PSW is fine. There is no "first article" for catalog items. You can ask for dimensional reporting, but using the "first article" term might be confusing. You should ask for a material test report when you've provided explicit material requirements. Depending on the type of part you're buying, it might be unnecessary or cause more confusion. Remember, the signed PSW is the supplier's affirmation that the thing is what it's supposed to be. The AAR would probably not be appropriate ever for catalog items unless your specifications include criteria appropriate to the AIAG AAR form.
 

Jafri

Involved In Discussions
#8
Re: What level PPAP for off-the-shelf parts?

Thanks, Jim. You probably have saved us from many bad conversations with suppliers due to putting unnecessary demands on them.

So this is what it should be then:
- PSW
- Material test results (only if material was a requirements from us)

In other words, for most items, just PSW should suffice.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: What level PPAP for off-the-shelf parts?

Thanks, Jim. You probably have saved us from many bad conversations with suppliers due to putting unnecessary demands on them.

So this is what it should be then:
- PSW
- Material test results (only if material was a requirements from us)

In other words, for most items, just PSW should suffice.
That's the way many people deal with catalog items, but there are too many variables not in evidence here to be able to give you a definitive answer.
 
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