What makes a person "qualified" to be the Management Representative?

[AndyN]

In many cases I'm familiar with, the MR is a member of the management team, but most of the actual quality system work is done by others. The MR therefore becomes a 'figurehead' and has little actual 'hands on' with the system, even to the point of having to be guided through management review..............

Andy

 

[amanbhai]

I have been working as an MR for sometime.
I had an interview with the MD & he asked me.
Can you speak english?
Is your ISO 9001 Lead assessor certificate is recognized?

 

[Randy]

In many cases I'm familiar with, the MR is a member of the management team, but most of the actual quality system work is done by others. The MR therefore becomes a 'figurehead' and has little actual 'hands on' with the system, even to the point of having to be guided through management review..............

Andy

What's wrong with that? All that is required is the MR....


5.5.2 shall have responsibility and authority that includes
a) ensuring that processes needed for the quality management system are established, implemented and maintained,

b) reporting to top management on the performance of the quality management system and any need for improvement, and

c) ensuring the promotion of awareness of customer requirements throughout the organization.

NOTE The responsibility of a management representative can include liaison with external parties on matters relating to the quality management system.

In simplified terms the MR is only responsible for the following....

1. Make sure the system is built and kept running

2. Tell the big boss how well things are running and if any fixing up has to be done.

3. Get the word out to everyone about what the customers want and expects.

4. If necessary be the go between for outsiders and the company when things about the quality system come up.


There isn't one thing that says the MR has to actually do the implementing or maintaining, he/she only has to make sure it happens.

 

[AndyN]

What's wrong with that? All that is required is the MR....


5.5.2 shall have responsibility and authority that includes
a) ensuring that processes needed for the quality management system are established, implemented and maintained,

b) reporting to top management on the performance of the quality management system and any need for improvement, and

c) ensuring the promotion of awareness of customer requirements throughout the organization.

NOTE The responsibility of a management representative can include liaison with external parties on matters relating to the quality management system.

In simplified terms the MR is only responsible for the following....

1. Make sure the system is built and kept running

2. Tell the big boss how well things are running and if any fixing up has to be done.

3. Get the word out to everyone about what the customers want and expects.

4. If necessary be the go between for outsiders and the company when things about the quality system come up.


There isn't one thing that says the MR has to actually do the implementing or maintaining, he/she only has to make sure it happens.

Well, Randy, I guess nothing - if you just want to pass a third party audit..........And I hope you're not serious.

What ever happened to 'commitment' and 'competence'? Don't those apply too? What about actually 'owning' the responsibility. We all know that one of the key reasons for a poor implementation is that management pay lip service to it all and having a disengaged MR is part of that lip service.

Andy

 

[Randy]

I am serious.

I've audited systems where the MR didn't "know how" things were done and all the answers, but did know who was responsible, where to get the information and understood the "system" and its interactions. The systems were well "managed" and top management was well "represented".

Too often organizations (and others) get a fixation that only the "Q" guys can be the QMR, or only the environmental guys can be the EMR, etc, etc. That is so extremely bogus that occasionally I'd like to snatch the decision makers up by their collective top-knots and shake 'em into reality.

If you "look" at the requirements for the MR you see that this person is actually nothing more than a Project Manager and glorified cheerleader with a very well defined project to get accomplished and team to root for. That's it!

Competency is always relevant to task and committment takes multiple avenues.

 

[SteelMaiden]

I think that what Randy is saying is that we all know how important the MR is, but the qualities it takes to be an MR are not necessarily qualities that are educated into someone. It is more on the job plus personality plus the willingness to do it. When I left my last division, they replaced my MR portion of my job with a shipping clerk. (Now, she does not do all the metallurgical things I did, but she has become a respectable MR)

I no longer know everything about everything like I used to at my last division, but my coworkers are very competent and all I need do is keep them motivated and know where to go for answers. I have not calibrated a single device, performed a single properties test, nor placed a single product on hold since I transferred, but anyone who does those things will help me anytime I need them.

My auditors (who are primarily involved in my industry, and handle most all of our divisions) continually praise the QMS, and my abilities as an MR. (ok, enough self advertisement) Who am I to deserve all this? I was a lowly student working my way through architectural school when I started working for this company for a summer to earn some money. It does not take a certified or degreed "Q" person to manage a system. It does take a person who is talented in project management and personal motivation. It doesn't hurt that I am just so darn loveable.

 

[al40]

I started out my life as a manufacturing engineer and somehow took a turn into quality due to someone saying hey he's real organized and customers take a real liking to him.

Over the years I have been asked by ISO, AS and TS auditors how I meet the MR job description, I have found that obtaining the CQM it's stopped the questions but I agree with Randy, anyone can be a MR from the homegrown person to the most highly decorated quality guru in a corporation.

I guess my real point is that as long as the person overseeing/managing the system ensures that the QMS adds value to the organization then hats off to them.

al40

 

[potdar]

In simplified terms the MR is only responsible for the following....

1. Make sure the system is built and kept running

2. Tell the big boss how well things are running and if any fixing up has to be done.

3. Get the word out to everyone about what the customers want and expects.

4. If necessary be the go between for outsiders and the company when things about the quality system come up.


There isn't one thing that says the MR has to actually do the implementing or maintaining, he/she only has to make sure it happens.

Extremely well put.

I'll just narrate a situation I encountered. This was QMS of a multi plant automotive OEM. A relatively junior manager in the CMD's office, an extremely brilliant internal auditor and a great person, was the MR. The plant in-charges considered it below dignity to report their peformance / non-perforformance to him. The system was in a mess.

As a corrective measure, the finance in-charge was appointed as the MR. His knowledge of the QMS was zilch. The system was back on rails within a year with the old MR continuing to do all the work and the new MR playing the front, pulling up / patting people in front of the management .....

In the third party audits, management responsibilty related NC / observations dropped fro double figures to zero.

Training? printed certificates?

 

[ScottK]

Why does he think that?

turns out it's the MR himself driving this. He's been doing the job for years, and doing a fine job, but I guess he just feels inadequate as he's never had any "formal education".

good discussion though.

 

[Icy Mountain]

...they have been appointed by Top Management. Technically, we have only 4 "managers" in our company. Everyone else is part of a great mass of teams with team leaders that form a communication and execution system that gets the job done and feeds the results back. Technically, our president is the MR. Practically, he has delegated 99% of the responsibility to me and all the fingers point at me when an auditor asks, "Who is the Management Rep?"