What Medium do you use in your Corrective Action System?

What do you use?


  • Total voters
    41
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RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#12
Wes,

Where do I start? Guess I'll just dive in head first......

What do you see as failing in your present system?
I see it as a stagnant system, where due to the small size of the company, things are "corrected" on the fly versus taking the time to write up the problem and properly analyze it. It's a system where employees don't understand what a root cause is and CARs are written to have something to show the registrar. It's a system that is awkard to use when I try to input our customers request for CA into it. It is also awkard to use to issue CARs to our vendors. But then again, it is the Quality Manager's quality system, the Quality Manager's CAR system and the Quality Manager's problem

How many "corrective action requests" does your system get in a week/month/year?
Going from today back a year, 3. From the number of problems I see, it seems like there should be more. (Your next question: So why aren't you issuing more then if you see so many problems? My answer: Seeing responses lacking in addressing root cause. Replies addressing only the small, short-term problem. Receiving snappy, flippant responses from my boss on CARs.) Also PARs are few and far between, an afterthought. Less than a handleful of those over the last 7 years.

Are some of them "repeaters?" If some are repeaters, is this because the original corrective action implemented fell out of use or did it not get implemented organization-wide?
Repeaters? No. Do I see the problems repeat after CARs are closed. Yes.

How many of these CARs are in-house? how many for suppliers? how many discovered in-house? how many discovered/originated by customers?
Upon review, they seem to be evenly balanced across the above catagories. The only exception being, as stated previously, customer CARs have their own forms and the tracking system doesn't lend itself for tracking outside/customer CARs. (It does seem like we have been getting more customer CARs lately though.)

Before looking at a new system, I think you really need to establish the root cause for failure (or YOUR perception of "failure") in your present system.

I've often seen folks under the impression a new software program for inputting and tracking the CARs in their operation would solve ALL the problems when, in fact, the problems had nothing to do with the paperwork (or computerwork) of identifying and tracking CARs, but of the culture in resolving a nonconforming event so it NEVER recurred and, further, that knowledge learned from resolving one CAR was applied as a preventive in other, similar operations.
Highly agreed with! :agree1: Despite what the best salesman can say, there is no magic, silver bullet that can instantly fix any system in a wink of an eye.

Maybe I was lucky, or maybe I had a super-excellent operation, but when I was making over 100 different products a year and quantities on an individual product ranging from 100 to 1,000,000 pieces per year, I can't recall a year when we had more than 5 CAR investigations, regardless of whether the suspected nonconformance was by supplier or us and whether we initiated the investigation or the request was generated by a customer. Even then, likely as not, the nonconformance was not really a product nonconformance, but a misunderstanding of the specific requirements which should have been handled in the Contract Review process.

The sole difference may have been that EVERYONE in our organization took a CAR as a personal affront and we moved heaven and earth to resolve it as a team and never, ever, pointed a finger of blame. We treated each CAR as either an opportunity for us to learn or for us to educate (our staff, our suppliers, our customers.)
Please, please, please don't take this wrong way but don't use the low number of CARs as a prediction of a sucessful system. It could be like mine where people just aren't using the CAR system. Your situation sounded at lot different from mine however. You probably had both luck and a good organization that actually saw the benefit of the system.

:soap:
Personally, as you can probably read into my post here and others I have made here at the Cove, I am one frustrated Quality Manager. My "hobby" here is pulling out my hair and working on an ulcer. I also realize two other big concepts: 1) For every company that has a clue, knows what they are doing, and why they are doing it (sounds like your example Wes), there are more companies out here that aren't in this position and likely will never be. 2) I'm not the only one in this position and that's why the Cove is like a hot bowl of chicken soup on a cold winter's day.
 

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
After the previous babble, my poll answer fits into "None of the above". I am using a paper system which gets routed for response but it is a custom CPAR tracking system which was supplied to my by a consultant when my company was using their services to attain ISO 9002 (way back when...).
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#14
Personally, as you can probably read into my post here and others I have made here at the Cove, I am one frustrated Quality Manager. My "hobby" here is pulling out my hair and working on an ulcer. .... For every company that has a clue, knows what they are doing, and why they are doing it (sounds like your example Wes), there are more companies out here that aren't in this position and likely will never be. .... I'm not the only one in this position and that's why the Cove is like a hot bowl of chicken soup on a cold winter's day.
Couldn't agree more or have said it better...

Remember..like a line from a cheap sci-fi movie, ...:agree:..We are not alone...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
S

somerqc

#15
I have one better to having a "paper" system.

I spent the time to train them on basis root cause analysis, completion of corrective actions, why corrective actions are issued, etc.

Rinse and repeat when doesn't work.

Have owner give me hell because corrective actions are not being completed on time (at all?).

Owner: "You should be following up with them"
Me: "I do...1st time verbally, 2nd time verbally & e-mail, 3rd time 2nd e-mail reminder, 4th time you are copied on e-mail"
Owner: "then we need to make it easier"
Me: "um....can't make it easier....it is pretty basic already...they need to determine why system didn't work properly and determine effective action....I do the follow-up to see if it was effective"
Owner: "Do they know how to find root cause and actions?"
Me: "Yes....I even offer to assist in root cause analysis...they say they are fine"
Owner: "Well...we don't want to overwork them...."
I leave the meeting as I realize I won't get anywhere....

Yes....I am looking for the bowl of chicken soup!
 

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#17
After the previous babble, my poll answer fits into "None of the above". I am using a paper system which gets routed for response but it is a custom CPAR tracking system which was supplied to my by a consultant when my company was using their services to attain ISO 9002 (way back when...).

Hi RCW,

I set-up the poll in this thread and it will allow you to vote in more than one category.
 
M

Mark.Melvin

#20
Databases with distribution of lessons learned.

At a previous employer, we went through an evolution from paper to spreadsheet to database to website. The final process, in this large manufacturer, captures the issue, provides an outline for root cause analysis, has a review/approval hierarchy for the analysis and emails task reminders to the responsible parties. The real power of the system is the management awareness and buyin from the approvals and the follow-thru from the task emails. We used the data to trend types of problems, overdue tasks, etc for continuous improvement. Because we had detailed data in one place, we could really focus on process improvements by spoting trends.
The data and reporting was available (read only) to everyone so they could search for issues and be proactive taking the information to other related processes. Paper tends to just sit in the drawer and doesn't support collective learning.
 
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