What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2015 Standard?

[Stijloor]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

There is a guidance document (still in Working Draft stage - so, it's not published as yet) addressing the competencies needed in a quality management system.

Can you fill us in?

Stijloor.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

Can you fill us in?

Stijloor.

Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

 

[20110108 Request]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

I will fill you in when, and if, the guideline gets to the CD status. Working Drafts are not for publication. However, your ideas are welcome.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

I will fill you in when, and if, the guideline gets to the CD status. Working Drafts are not for publication. However, your ideas are welcome.

I understand that WD's are not for publication, but many of us would like to know what you guys talk about; what's likely "coming down the pike" so to speak..

Stijloor.

 

[20110108 Request]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

Fair enough. This guideline is in VERY rough format. It is still to be decided if work will proceed on it. Each process contained in ISO 9001 is being addressed as to the competencies needed for that particular set of activities. For example, what competencies are needed for 7.1 or 7.6. It may be that those of you who deal with quality issues on a daily basis may see this as simplistic, but there are many organizations who do not have a clue in this area.

As more detail emerges, I will share that with you.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

Fair enough. This guideline is in VERY rough format.

If, as Sidney has posted, you are talking about ISO 10018 it is in slightly less rough format now! We have just gone through a final edit to get the standard to first committee draft stage (CD1).

It is still to be decided if work will proceed on it.

Work will go on. After the CD has gone round for comments there is a meeting planned for September to review those comments.

Each process contained in ISO 9001 is being addressed as to the competencies needed for that particular set of activities. For example, what competencies are needed for 7.1 or 7.6.

IMHO this is the least successful bit of guidance. It covers potential issues with implementing 9001 and how loking after people aspects can help. The other sections cover the 8 principles from a people point of view, a description of human factors important in (quality) management systems and two main areas (called processes but again IMHO not 'processes') of managing competence and involving people.

It may be that those of you who deal with quality issues on a daily basis may see this as simplistic, but there are many organizations who do not have a clue in this area.

As more detail emerges, I will share that with you.

As will I!

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

Now that the amendment of ISO 9001:2008 is done with, hopefully the TC 176 will have the courage to instill significant changes in the next revision of ISO 9001.

I thought we should start a thread so people could suggest possible changes to the standard. We have Cove members that participate in the US TAG and can convey (should they agree) our collective requests.

In my opinion, certain things need to be significantly revised.

The first one is preventive action. The TC 176 should re-phrase the requirements associated with preventive actions, so it can be meaningfully implemented in the real world. At present, the requirement is unclear and difficult to assess compliance against.

Another suggestion I have is for emphasis on process and system effectiveness. 8.2.3, for example, is completely disregarded by many organizations.

Quality economics, a.k.a cost of quality and mandatory review during management reviews is another candidate in my book.

Other ideas?

As a current discussion thread seems to point out, it could be a good idea if the requirements for the design process were further elucidated, and perhaps added to list of "shalls" for documented procedures.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

it could be a good idea if the requirements for the design process were further elucidated, and perhaps added to list of "shalls" for documented procedures.

I agree. My recollection during the ISO 9001:2000 revision, the TC 176 decided to remove the requirement for a documented procedure for 7.3, in order to address the user-friendliness concern for service organizations. The concept is that service organizations can design and develop their services without the need for a "documented procedure". But, in my experience, most service organizations, when going for ISO 9001 implementation, totally overlook 7.3, and many still (erroneously) believe that a service organization can justifiably exclude 7.3 from their QMS.

I still contend that we should have a version of ISO 9001 that specifically addresses the needs of service organizations.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

I agree. My recollection during the ISO 9001:2000 revision, the TC 176 decided to remove the requirement for a documented procedure for 7.3, in order to address the user-friendliness concern for service organizations. The concept is that service organizations can design and develop their services without the need for a "documented procedure". But, in my experience, most service organizations, when going for ISO 9001 implementation, totally overlook 7.3, and many still (erroneously) believe that a service organization can justifiably exclude 7.3 from their QMS.

I still contend that we should have a version of ISO 9001 that specifically addresses the needs of service organizations.

In the absence of a specific standard for service organizations (which I agree would be a good idea) it wouldn't be too hard to require a documented procedure for 7.3 and explicitly exclude the requirement where service organizations are concerned.

 

[Polly Pure Bread]

Re: What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2014 Standard?

8.2.3 Monitoring and measurement of processes

This clause is too vague. This should be revised by unfolding the reasons why do we monitor and measure, not just considering the type and extent. Why are we monitoring and measuring? When do we stop? Is anyone using the data? The answer to these questions, it is important to identify what reason is driving the measurement effort. Too often, we continue to measure long after the need has passed. Every time you produce a report you should ask: ‘Do we still need this?’

Think about why something is to be done before thinking of how, or before requiring of applying any methods.